A DIALOGUE BETWIXT THREE TRAVELLERS, as accidentally they did meet on the High-way:
Wherein the errours of the Papiſts and the Browniſts are diſcuſſed, and themſelves reconciled to the Church of England.
Printed in the yeare, 1641.
WEll met, well met Maſter Wreſt-Writ, you are ſuch an eager man; Do you remember, Sir, the conference we had, when we laſt encountred, almoſt in this very place? Doe you ſtill purſue your errours with that wilfull heat?
Out of my ſight thou Idolater; prophaneſſe hangs in a miſt about thee, that thou maiſt commit thy deeds of darkneſſe with the Whore of Babilon with more ſecureneſſe.
Not ſo haſty Maſter Wreſt-Wright, a good cauſe ſhould be diſputed with good words, and confirmed with reaſons, not with paſſions.
Down Dagon, down, I hate thee Cringe;2 I hate thee and thy late diſputed doctrine of the reall preſence in the Sacrament, worſe than the lawne Reeves of the Prelates, which are but meer rags of Rome, and fit onely for tinder for the Tinder-box of Tophet; but goe to M•ſter Cringe, becauſe ſociety is the injunction of nature; and good diſcourſe (they ſay) doth make a hor•e that trots ſeeme to amble, proceed in your laſt argument, and I promiſe you both ſilence and attention.
If you will be patient I will: The doctrine then of the reall preſence in the Euchariſt.
The Euchariſt! I can forbeare the argument no longer; there is no ſuch word to be read in all the Scripture.
Very frequently, Sir, in the Greek originall.
Talk not to me of Greek, I will beleeve no Greek, it is a language that ſhall carry no authority with me; I hope to ſee Greek and Latine too, ere it be long, in leſſe reputation than they are.
I doe not like this fury, E'en God be with you, and grant your zeale more knowledge, and your knowledge more humility.
Nay but hark you Maſter Cringe, hark you one word, — look you here, — Maſter Accepted Weighall: — Come as wiſht for.
How have you done this long time? How doe you Maſter Crucy? Sir, I heartily ſalute you.
I returne your ſalutation with the like teſtimony of good will, and true affect on: you intervene an happy Vmpire, we two were e'en a falling out, and a falling off too.
Verily, Maſter Weighall, the words of truth being not in his lips, I was about to ſeparate, and to leave him to the fogs of his ſuperſtitious ignorance,3 I muſt beſeech you, having ſo happily met with your better company, that we may abandon him.
Why ſo Sir, Although I am a Profeſſour of true and Orthodox Religion, I am not of the ſeparation; I would be neither a Trojan, nor Tyrian; it fares with Religion as with Vertue, ſhe muſt preſerve her ſelfe entire betwixt two extreames; and the ſafeſt way to truth is the middle way; I would be neither learnedly ſuperſtirious, nor obſtinately ignorant; but to the point which you were ſo hot in diſputation of.
Sir, when laſt Maſter Cringe and I encountred, we held a controverſie concerning the reall preſence in the Sacrament, which Maſter Cringe beleeveth to be truly corporall, and in adoration bowes unto it.
Sir, I beleeve the Sacrament to be a greater myſtery then peradventure you conceive it, and not a meere Love-feaſt, as idly enough you are pleaſed to fancy it; I dare affirme, that the great worke of mans Redemption is no where more perfectly to be diſcovered, Nec tam praeſentes alibi cognoſcere Divos.
Sir, you are in your Latine, I will have Latine againe to anſwer you; I aſſure you I take it to be a Commemoration per fidem, onely in remembrance of our Saviours ſufferings, on whom we feed with the eye of faith.
That cannot be Maſter Wreſt-Writ, the words are poſitive and punctuall, This is my Body, and will admit of no other interpretation.
The words that follow that text doe as plainly and punctually interpret the words precedent, Doe this in remembrance of me, which implies a direct abſence of the party; for what needs a remembrance, when the perſon is preſent? and in this I referre my ſelfe to Maſter Weighall. You affirmed beſides at our laſt meeting, that you did4 feed in the Sacrament, upon the very body of Chriſt indeed.
I feed in the Sacrament on the very Body and Bloud of Chriſt, the elements of Bread and Wine, being tranſubſtantiated into his Body.
This is moſt horrible impiety. How is this tranſubſtantiation? when is it begun? when is it finiſhed? anſwer me to that, Maſter Cringe.
Immediately after the words of the conſecration.
That cannot be, for the Metaphyſicks (as I have heard Schollers ſay) will not allow that the ſubſtance ſhould be altered, and the accidents remaine, that the Bread and Wine ſhould be converted into the very Body and Bloud of Chriſt; yet the colour and taſte of the Bread and Wine, which are their accidents, ſhould ſtill continue; neither will Divinity ever agree, that the Bread, which after conſecration, you ſay, is turned into the Body of Chriſt, ſhould ſuffer afterwards, corruption, and moulder away, as we ſee it doth.
We feed, I ſay, in the Sacrament on the very Body of Chriſt; but how? not as we feed on butchers meat bought in the ſhambles; but it being received with all reverence, and prepared humility after a divine and ſpirituall manner; and whatſoever you are pleaſed to ſay to to the contrary of us, beleeve me, there is no Catholick but is of the ſame opinion with me.
That you doe to avoid ſome dangerous abſurdities which would conſequently ariſe, ſhould you affirme, that in a fleſhly manner you eat in the Sacrament, the very fleſh of our Saviour; for then by the ſame argument ſhould the bleſſed Virgin, the mother of our Saviour, feed in the Sacrament, on the fleſh of her owne ſon; and then again, as often as in the time of Leat you receive the Communion,5 you ſhould as often offend againſt the order of the Church, which doth command, that there ſhould in Lent no meat be eaten. Beſides, I underſtand how croſſe it is to reaſon and Philoſophy, that one Body ſhould at one and the ſame time move in ſeverall places.
Wonders are no wonders in wonderfull ſubjects; I beleeve as the Church beleeveth, which doth informe me, that the Body of our Saviour is aſſiſted alwayes with the Divinity of our Saviour, and in this (as Maſter Wreſt-Writ did before) I referre my ſelfe to you Maſter Weighall.
With all my heart, and if we ſhall continue in our journey and travell one way together; as in this, ſo in all controverted points betwixt us, I ſhall referre my ſelfe to your advice, Maſter Weighall.
I have not the deſire, nor yet the ability to goe thorow with ſo great a taske; but ſince it is the inclination of truth to communicate herſelfe, and through all my life I have made it my labour to enquire her out: I will, as neare as I can, firſt ſtate the queſtion aright, and then determine it. I beleeve we ought not to make our approaches to the bleſſed Sacrament, with that overweening familiarity, as the ſawcy Browniſts; nor yet with ſuch a devout ſuperſtition as the abuſed Papiſts. That the Bread and wine in the Sacrament ſhould be tranſubſtantiated into the Body of Chriſt, cannot be admitted into the faith of any ſober man, without admitting with it many groſſe and grievous errours; for beſides that, it is but a meere invention of latter times, it is diametrically oppoſite to reaſon and nature; and God himſelfe, who oftentimes doth work above nature, doth never work againſt it. The elevation of the Hoſt by the Papiſts, ſavours of rank idolatry; and the unmannerly ſitting of the Browniſts at the Communion, of irreverence. A decent and humble poſture6 is moſt requiſite, eſpecially where God is pleaſed to communicate himſelfe to be really, and more peculiarly preſent. It is no lukewarmeneſſe, no neutrality to keepe ſafe between both your errours, but a grounded knowledge and uprightneſſe: And I aſſure my ſelfe, if you would well weigh, with how much ſafety between both rockes the Truth doth paſſe by unſhip-wrackt, how ſecure and cleare ſhee is diſcovered, you would then make haſt to diſembogue, and make up unto her, who indeed is the Center of all ſublunary happineſſe, where alone we may finde peace with confidence. Errours in the Church reſult out of too unruly an heat, or too thick and too grave a Superſtition; either while we violently are lead by our own ungoverned humours, or while blinded with pompe, or with the ſhadowes of Antiquitie with a willing reverence wee are drawne unto Idolatry. Too much Ceremony and an affected pompe hath begot much Superſtition in the Sacrament amongſt the Papiſts. Too careleſſe a preſumption hath begot much irreverence in the Sacrament amongſt the Anabaptiſts. The mean betwixt both is the fate and happy way attended with a perſevering care, not to decline, either to the one, or to the other, either to the right hand, or to the left.
I thanke you for your good counſels, and ſhall endeavour to embrace them.
And I ſhall acknowledge my ſelfe to be much improved by you which doth embolden me to propound one queſtion more, and that is concerning the Originall, and the Inſtitution of Biſhops.
I ſhould with much content lend care to your Conference, but ſee the Towne is neare, and within the full view of our eye; we will therefore for this day repoſe our minds as well as bodyes; and refer the diſcourſe untill the Morning.
(EEBO-TCP ; phase 2, no. A81435)
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