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THE PICTURE OF THE Councel of State, Held forth to the Free people of England BY Lievt. Col. John Lilburn, Mr Thomas Prince, and Mr Richard Overton, now Priſoners in the Tower of LONDON.

OR, A full Narrative of the late Extra­judicial and Military Proceedings againſt them.

Together with the Subſtance of their ſeveral Examinations, Anſwers and Deportments before them at Darby houſe, upon the 28. of March laſt.

Printed in the Year, 1649.

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THE PICTURE OF The COUNCEL of STATE, Held forth to the Free People of England, By Lieutenant Coll. John Lilburn, M. Thomas Prince, and M. Richard Overton.

The Narrative of the proceedings againſt Lieut. Coll. John Lilburn, thus followeth.

ON Wedneſday the 28. of March 1649. about foure or five a clock in the morning, my Lodging at Winchſter-houſe was beſet with about a hundred or two hundred armed men, Horſe and Foot, one of which knocking at my cham­ber doore, I riſe and opened him the doore, and asked him who he would ſpeak with, and what he would have? He replyed, he was come to take me Priſoner, where upon I demanded of him to ſee his Warrant, he told me he had one, but had it not here, but as ſoon as I came to Pauls I should ſee it; I told him if he walked by the rules of Juſtice, he ought to have brought his Warrant with him, and to have ſhewed it me, and given me leave to have coppied it out, if I had de­ſired it; but divers of the foot Soldiers rushing into my roome at his heeles, I deſired him to demeane himſelf like a Gentleman, and not with any incivilities affright my children & family, for if it were no­thing but my perſon he would have, I would but make me ready and go along with him without any more a doe, whither he would carry me, for his power of armed men was beyond my preſent reſiſting, or power to diſpute; ſo I deſired him and another Gentleman with him to ſit down, which they did, and when I was almoſt ready to go, I demanded of him whether it would not fully ſatisfie his end, in my going along with him and one or two more of his company in a boate, and I would ingage unto him as I was an Englishman, there2 ſhould be no diſturbance to him by me, or any in my behalf, but I would quietly and peaceably go with him, wherever he would have me; but he told me no, I muſt march through the ſtreets with the ſame Guard that came for me; I told him I could not now diſpute, but it would be no great conqueſt to lead a ſingle captive through the ſtreets in the head of ſo many armed men, who neither had made re­ſiſtance, nor was in any capacity to do it; and coming down ſtaires in­to the great yard, I was commanded to ſtand till the men were mar­ſhalled in Rank and File and two other Priſoners were brought un­to me, viz. my Land-lord, Mr. Devenniſh's two ſons, but for what they knew not, nor could imagine; So away through the ſtreets the armed Victors carry us, like three conquered Slaves, making us often halt by the way, that ſo their men might draw up in good order, to incoun­ter with an Army of Butter-flies, in caſe they ſhould meet them in the way to reſcue us their Captives from them; ſo coming to Pauls Church, I thre meet with my Comrade Mr. Prince, and after im­braces each of other, and a little diſcourſe, we ſee our acquaintance M. William Walwin marching at the head of another Partie as a cap­tive, and having underſtood that our being ſeiſed as Priſoners was about a new addreſſe by way of Petition to the Parliament, intituled the ſecond part of Englands new chains diſcovered; We could not but wonder at the apprehending of M. Walwin about that, he having for ſome moneths by paſt (that ever I could ſee, or hear of) never bin at any of our meetings, where any ſuch things were managed; But Adjutant General Stubber that was the Commander of the Party coming then to view, I repaired to him, and deſired to ſee his Warrant by vertue of which his men forced me out of my bed and habitation, from my wife and children, and his Warrant he produced, which I read, he denying me a coppy of it, though both there and at White-Hall I earneſtly demanded it as my right, the ſubſtance of which ſo neere as I can remember, is from the Committee, commonly ſtiled the Councel of State, to Authoriſe Sir Hardreſſe Waller, and Collonel Edward Whalely, or whom they ſhall appoint, to repaire to any place whatſoever, where they ſhal heare Lieut. Coll. John Lilburn, and M. Prince, M. Walwin, and M. Overton are, them to apprehend and bring before the Councel of State, for ſuſpition of high Treaſon, for compiling &c. a ſeditious and ſcandalous Pamphlet &c. And for ſo doing, that ſhal be their warrant.

Signed Iohn Bradſhaw Preſident.

3And in the ſame paper is contained Sir Hardreſs Wallers, and Col. Whaley's Commiſſion or Deputation to Adjutant General Stubber, to apprehend M. Walwin, and my ſelf; who with his Officers, dealt abundantly more fairly with us, then I underſtand Lieut. Col. Axeſtell dealt with M. Prince and M. Overton; From which Lieut. Col. if there had bin any harmony in his ſpirit to his profeſſion, abundance more in point of civility, might have bin expected, than from the other, though he fell much ſhort.

But when we were in Pauls Church-yard, I was very earneſt with the Adjutant General, and his Enſigne that apprehended me (as I underſtood by the Adjutant he was) that we might go to ſome place to drink our mornings draughts, and accordingly we went to the next dore to the School-houſe, where we had a large diſcourſe with the Officers, eſpecially about M. Diviniſh ſons; we under­ſtanding they had no warrant at all to meddle with them in the leaſt, nor nothing to lay to their charge, but a private information of one Bull their fathers tenant, between which parties there is a pri­vate difference; we told them, we could not but ſtand amazed, that any Officer of an Army durſt in ſuch a caſe apprehend the perſons of any Free-man of England, and of his own head and authority, drag him or them out of his houſe and habitation, like a Traytor, a Thief, or a Rogue; and they being aſhamed of what they had done to them, at our importunity, let both the yong men go free. So away by water we three went to White-hall, with the Adjutant General, where we met with our friend M. Overton. And after we had ſtaid at White-hall till about 4. or 5. of the clock in the afternoon, we were by the foreſaid Adjutant carried to Darby houſe, where after about an hours ſtay, there were called in Lieu. Col. Goldegne, a Coalyard keep­er in Southwark, and as ſome of good quality of his neighbours do re­port him to have bin no ſmall Perſonal Treaty man; and alſo Capt. Williams, and M. Saul Shoe-maker, both of Southwark, who are ſaid to be the Divels 3. deputies, or informers againſt us; and after they were turned out, I was called in next, and the dore being opened, I marched into the Room with my hat on, and looking about me, I ſaw divers Members of the Houſe of Commons preſent, and ſo I put it off; and by Sergeant Dendy I was directed to go neer M. Bradſhaw, that ſate as if he had bin Chairman to the Gentlemen that were there pre­ſent; between whom, and my ſelf, paſt to this following effect.

Lieut. Col. Lilburn (ſaid he) here are ſome Votes of Parliament4 that I am commanded by this Councel to acquaint you with; which were accordingly read, and which did contain the late publiſhed and printed Proclamation or Declaration, againſt the ſecond Part of Englands New Chains diſcovered, with divers inſtructions, and an unlimitted power given unto the Councel of State, to find out the Authors and Promoters thereof. After the reading of which, M. Bradſhaw ſaid unto me, Sir, You have heard what hath bin read unto you, and this Councel having information that you have a prin­cipal hand in compiling and promoting this Book, (ſhewing me the Book it ſelf,) therefore they have ſent for you, and are willing to hear you speak for your ſelf.

Well then M. Bradſhaw, ſaid I, If it pleaſe you and theſe Gentle­men to afford me the ſame liberty and priviledge that the Cavaliers did at Oxford, when I was arraigned before them for my li••…for levying War in the quarrel of the Common-wealth, againſt the late King and his Party (which was liberty of ſpeech, to ſpeak my mind freely without interruption) I ſhall ſpeak, and go on; but without the Grant of liberty of ſpeech, I ſhall not ſay a word more to you.

To which he replyed, That is already granted you, and therefore you may go on to ſpeak what you can or will ſay for your ſelf, if you pleaſe; or if you will not, you may hold your peace, and with draw.

Well then (ſaid I) M. Bradſhaw, with your favour, thus. I am an Engliſhman born, bred, and brought up, and England is a Nation Governed, Bounded, and Limitted by Laws and Liberties: and for the Liberties of England, I have both fought and ſuffered much: but truly Sir, I judge it now infinitely below me, and the glory and ex­cellency of my late actions, now to plead merit or deſert unto you, as though I were forced to fly to the merit of my former actions, to lay in a counter-ſcale, to weigh down your indignation againſt me, for my pretended late offences: No, Sir, I ſcorn it, I abhor it: And therefore Sir, I now ſtand before you, upon the bare, naked, and ſingle account of an Engliſhman, as though I had never ſaid, done, or acted any thing, that tended to the preſervation of the Liberties thereof; but yet, have never done any act that did put me out of a Legal ca­pacity to claim the utmoſt punctilio, benefit, and priviledge that the Laws and Liberties of England will afford to any of you here pre­ſent, or any other man in the whole Nation: And the Laws and Li­berties of England are my inheritance and birth-right. And in your late Declaration, publiſhed about four or five daies ago, wherein you5 lay down the grounds and reaſons (as I remember) of your doing Ju­ſtice upon the late King, and why you have aboliſhed Kingly Govern­ment, and the Houſe of Lords, you declare in effect the ſame; and promiſe to maintain the Laws of England, in reference to the Peo­ples Liberties and Freedoms: And amongſt other things therein contained, you highly commend and extol the Petition of Right, made in the third yeer of the late King, as one of the moſt excellent and glorieſt Laws in reference to the Peoples Liberties that ever was made in this Nation; and you there very much blame, and cry out upon the King, for robing and denying the people of England the benefit of that Law; and ſure I am (for I have read and ſtudied it) there is one clauſe in it that ſaith expreſly, That no Free-man of England ought to be adjudged for life, limb, liberty, or eſtate, but by the Laws already in being eſtabliſhed and declared: And truly Sir, if this be good and found Legal Doctrine (as undoubtedly it is, or elſe your own Declarations are falſe, and lyes) I wonder what you Gentlemen are; For the declared and known Laws of England knows you not, neither by names, nor qualifications, as perſons en­dowed with any power either to impriſon or try me, or the meaneſt Free-man of England; And truly, were it not that I know the faces of divers of you, and honour the perſons of ſome of you, as Members of the Houſe of Commons that have ſtood pretty firm in ſhaking times to the Intereſt of the Nation; I ſhould wonder what you are, or before whom I am and ſhould not in the leaſt honor or reverence you ſo much as with Civil Reſpect, eſpecially conſidering the man­ner of my being brought before you, with armed men, and the man­ner of your cloſe ſitting, contrary to all Courts of Juſtice. M. Brad­ſhaw, it may be the Houſe of Commons hath paſt ſome Votes or Or­ders, to authoriſe you to ſit here for ſuch and ſuch ends as in their Or­ders may be declared: But that they have made any ſuch Votes or Orders, is legally unknown to me, I never ſaw them. Its true, by common Fame you are bruted abroad and ſtiled a Councel of State, but its poſſible common Fame in this particular may as well tell me a ly as a truth; But admit common Fame do in this tell me a truth, and no ly, but that the Houſe of Commons in good earneſt have made you a Councel of State, yet I know not what that is, becauſe the Law of England tells me nothing of ſuch a thing; and ſurely if a Coun­cel of State were a Court of Juſtice, the Law would ſpeak ſomthing of it: But I have read both old and new Laws, yea all of late that it6 was poſſible to buy or hear of, and they tell me not one word of you, and therefore I ſcarce know what to make of you or what to think of you, but as Gentlemen that I know, I give you civil reſpect, and out of no other conſideration: But if you judge your ſelves to be a Councel of State, and by vertue thereof think you have any power over me, I pray you ſhew me your Commiſſion, that I may know the better how to behave my ſelf before you. M. Bradſhaw, I will not now queſtion or diſpute the Votes or Orders of the preſent ſingle Houſe of Commons, in reference to their power, as binding Laws to the people; yet admit them to be valid, legal, and good; their due circumſtances accompanying them: yet Sir, by the Law of England let me tell you, what the Houſe Votes, Orders, and En­acts within their walls, is nothing to me, I am not at all bound by them, nor in Law can take any cogniſance of them as Laws, although 20. Members come out of the Houſe, and tell me ſuch things are done, till they be publiſhed and declared by ſound of Trumpet, Proclamation, or the like, by a publike Officer or Magiſtrate, in the, publike and open places of the Nation; But truly Sir, I never ſaw any Law in Print or writing, that declares your power ſo pro­claim'd or publiſhed; and therefore Sir, I know not what more to make of you, then a company of private men, being neither able to own you as a Court of Juſtice, becauſe the Law ſpeaks nothing of you; nor as a Councel of State, till I ſee, and read, or hear your Commiſſion, which I deſire (if you pleaſe) to be acquainted with.

But Sir, give me leave further to aver unto you, and upon this Principle or Averment I will venture my life and being, and all I have in the world; That if the Houſe had by a Proclaimed and De­clared Law, Vote, or Order, made this Councel (as you call your ſelves) a Court of Juſtice, yet that proclaimed or declared Law, Vote, or Order, had bin unjuſt, and null, and void in it ſelf; And my reaſon is, becauſe the Houſe it ſelf was never (neither now, nor in any age before) betruſted with a Law executing power, but only with a Law making power.

And truly Sir, I ſhould have lookt upon the people of this Nation as very fooles, if ever they had betruſted the Parliament with a law executing power, and my reaſon is, becauſe, if they had ſo done, they had then choſen and impowred a Parliament to have deſtroyed them, but not to have preſerved them, (which is againſt the very na­ture and end of the very being of Parliaments, they being by your own7 declared doctrin) choſen to provide for the peoples weale, but not for their wo) And Sir, the reaſon of that reaſon is, becauſe its poſſible if a Parliament ſhould execute the Law they might doe palpable in­juſtice, and male adminiſter it, and ſo the people would be robd of their intended extraordinary benefit of appeales, for in ſuch caſes they muſt appeale to the Parliament, either againſt it ſelf, or part of it ſelf, and can it ever be imagined they will ever condemne themſelves, or puniſh themſelves; nay, will they not rather judge themſelves bound in honour and ſafety to themſelves, to vote that man a Traytor and deſtroy him that ſhall ſo much as queſtion their actions, although formerly they have dealt never ſo unjuſtly with him; For this Sir I am ſure is very commonly practiſed now a dayes, and therefore the ho­neſty of former Parliaments in the diſcharge of their truſt and duty in this particular was ſuch, that they have declared, the power is not in them to judge or puniſh me, or the meaneſt free-man in England, being no Member of their Houſe, although I ſhould beat or wound one of their Members nigh unto their dore, going to the Houſe to diſ­charge his duty, but I am to be ſent in all ſuch caſes to the Judge of the upper**See 5. H. 4. 6. 11. H. 6. Ch. 11. ſee alſo my plea againſt the Lords juriſdiction, before the Judges of the Kings Bench called the Laws Fune­ral. Pag. 8, 9. and my grand Plea a­gainſt the Lords juriſdiction, made before M. Maynard of the houſe of Commons; and the foure impriſoned Aldermen of Londons plea againſt the Lords juriſdiction, publiſhed by M. Lionel Hurbin 1648. Bench, unto whom by Law they have given declared rules, and direction in that particular how to behave him­ſelf, which are as evident for me to know as himſelf, now Sir, if reaſon and juſtice doe not judge it convenient that the Parliament ſhal not be Iudges in ſuch particular caſes, that is of ſo neere concernment to themſelves, but yet hath others that are not of their Houſe that are as well concerned as themſelves, much leſſe will reaſon or juſtice admit them to be judges in particular caſes, that are farther remote from their particular ſelves, and doth meerly concern the common wealth, and ſure I am Sir, this is the declared Statute Law of England, and doth ſtand in ful force at this houre, there being I am ſure of it no law to repeale it, no not ſince the Houſe of Commons ſet up their new Common-wealth. Now Sir from all this I argue thus, that which is not inherent in the whole, cannot by the whole be derived, or aſſigned to a part.

But it is not inherent neither in the power nor authority of the whole8 Houſe of Commons, primarily and originally to execute the Law, and therefore they cannot derive it to a part of them ſelves.

But yet Sir with your favour, for all this I would not be miſtaken as though I maintained the Parliament had no power to make a Court of juſtice, for I do grant they may errect a Court of juſtice to adminiſter the Law, provided that the Iudges conſiſt of perſons that are not Members of their Houſe, and provided that the power they give them be univerſal, that is to ſay, to adminiſter the law to all the peo­ple of England indefinitely, and not to two or three particular perſons ſolely, the laſt of which for them to do is unjuſt, and altogether, out of their power: And therefore Sir, to conclude this point, It being not in the power of the whole Parliament to execute the Law, they can give no power to you their Members to meddle with me in the caſe before you; For an ordinary Court of Juſtice (the proper Ad­miniſtrator of the Law) is the onely and ſole Judge in this particular; and not you Gentlemen, no nor your whole Houſe it ſelf.

For with your favour M. Bradſhaw, the fact that you ſuppoſe I have committed (for till it be judicially proved (and that muſt be before a legal Judge that hath cogniſance of the fact) or confeſſed by my ſelf before the Judge; it is but a bare ſuppoſition) is either a crime, or no crime; A crime it cannot be, unleſs it be a Tranſ­greſſion of a Law in being, before it was committed, acted, or done; For where there is no Law,**Rom. 4.15. See the 4. part of the L. Cooks Inſtituts, Ch. 1. high Court of Parl. fol. 14. 35. 37. See alſo my printed Epiſtle to the Speaker, of the 4. of April, 1648. called The Priſoners plea for a Habeas Corpus, p. 5, 6. and Englands Birth-right, p. 1, 2, 3, 4. and the ſecond edition of my Epiſtle to Judge Reeves, p. 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. and M. John Wildmans Truths Tryumph, p. 11, 12, 13, 14. and Sir John Maynards Caſe truly ſtated, called The Laws Subverſion, p. 9.13, 14, 15, 16. 38. there is no Tranſgreſſion. And if it be a Tranſgreſſion of a Law, that Law provides a puniſhment for it, and by the Rules and method of that Law am I to be tryed, and by no other whatſoever, made ex poſt facto.

And therefore Sir, If this be true, as undoubtedly it is; then I am ſure you Gentlemen have no power in Law to convene me before you, for the pretended crime laid unto my charge; much leſs to fetch me by force out of my habitation by the power of armed men: For Sir, let me tell you, The Law of England never made Colonels, Lieu. Colonels, Captains, or Souldiers, either Bayliffs, Conſtables, *See the Petition of Right, in the C. R. and my Book, called the Peoples Prerogative, p. 67, 68, 69, 70. or Juſti­ces9 of the Peace: And I cannot but wonder that you ſhould attach me in ſuch a manner as you have done, conſidering that I have all along adhered to the Intereſt of the Nation againſt the common ene­my (as you call them) and never diſputed, nor contemned any Order of Summons from Parliament, or the moſt irregulareſt of their Committees, but alwaies came to them when they ſent for me, al­though their warrant of ſummons was never ſo illegal in the form of it; and I have of late in a manner de die in diem, waited at the Houſe dore, and was there that day the Votes you have read, paſt, till almoſt twelve a clock; and I am ſure there are ſome here preſent (whoſe con­ſcience I believe tells them, they are very much concerned in the Book now before you) that ſaw me at the dore, and ſtared wiſhfully upon me as they went into the Houſe; and I cannot but wonder there could be no Civil Officer found to ſummon me to appear; but that now, when there is no viſible hoſtile enemy in the Nation, and all the Courts of Juſtice open, that you (that have no power at all over me) muſt ſend for me by an hundred or two hundred armed Horſe and Foot, as though I were ſome monſtrous man, that with the breath of my mouth were able to deſtroy all the Civil Officers that ſhould come to apprehend me; Surely I had not endeavoured to fortifie my houſe againſt you, neither had I betaken my ſelf to a Caſtle, or a defenced Gariſon in hoſtility againſt you, that you need to ſend an hundred or two hundred armed men to force me out of my houſe, from my wife and children, by four or five a clock in the morning, to the diſtract­ing and frighting of my wife and children: Surely, I cannot but look upon this irregular, unjuſt, and illegal hoſtile action of yours, at one of the fruits and iſſues of your new created Tyranny, to amuſe and debaſe my ſpirit, and the ſpirits of the People of this Free Nation, to fit me and them for bondage and ſlavery. And Sir, give me leave further to tell you, that for divers hundreds of men that have often bin in the field with their ſwords in their hands, to encounter with hoſtile enemies, and in their engagements have acquitted themſelves like men of valour, and come out of the field conquerors; for theſe very men to put themſelves in Martial Array againſt four Miſe or Butterflyes, and take them captives, and as captives lead them through the ſtreets, me-thinks is no great victory and conqueſt for them, but rather a diminution to their former Martial Atchievements and Tro­phies: And therefore to conclude this, I do here before you all, pro­rest againſt your Power and Jurisdiction over me, in the caſe in con­troverſie;10 And do alſo proteſt againſt your Warrant you iſſued〈◊〉to apprehend me; And againſt all your martial and hostile acts com­mitted towards me, as illegal, unjuſt, and tyrannical, and no way in Law to be juſtified: Further telling you, that I ſaw moſt of the Lord of Straffords arraignment, and (if my memory fail me not) as little things as you have already done to me, were by your ſelves laid to his charge, as acts of Treaſon; For which I ſaw him loſe his head upon Tower-hill as a Traytor: And I doubt not for all this that is done unto me, but I ſhall live to ſee the Laws and Liberties of Eng­land firmly ſetled, in deſpite of the preſent great oppoſers thereof, and to their ſhame and confuſion: and ſo M. Bradſhaw I have done with what I have now to ſay.

Vpon which M. Bradſhaw replyed, Lieut. Col. Lilburn, you need not to have bin ſo earneſt, and have ſpent ſo much time in making an Apologetical defence; for this Councel doth not go about to try you, or challenge any juriſdiction to try you, neither do we ſo much as ask you a queſtion in order to your tryal, and therefore you may correct your miſtake in that particular.

Vnto which I ſaid, Sir, by your favour, if you challenge no Juriſ­diction over me, no not ſo much as in order to a tryal, what do I here before you? or what do you in ſpeaking to me? But Sir, ſeing I am now here, give me leave to ſay one word more, and that is this; I am not onely in time of peace (the Courts of Juſtice being all open) fetcht & forc't out of my houſe by multitudes of armed men, in an ho­ſtile manner, & carried as a captive up and down the ſtreets, contrary to all Law and Juſtice, but I am by force of Arms ſtill kept in their cu­ſtody, and it may be, may be intended to be ſent to them again, who are no Guardians of the Laws of England, no nor ſo much as the meaneſt Adminiſtrators or Executors of it, but ought to be ſubject to it themſelves, and to the Adminiſtrators of it: And truly Sir, I had rather dy, than baſely betray my liberties into their Martial fingers, (who after their fighting for our Freedoms, would now deſtroy them, and tread them under their feet) that have nothing at all to do with me, nor any pretended or real civil offender in England: I know not what you intend to do with me, neither do I much care; having learned long ſince to dy, and rather for my Liberties, than in my bed: Its true, I am at preſent in no capacity effectually to diſpute your power, becauſe I am under Guards of armed muskettiers, but I entreat you, If you will continue me a priſoner, that you will free me11 from the military Sword, and ſend me to ſome Civil Goal; and I will at preſent in peace and quietneſs obey your command, and go. And ſo I concluded, and was commanded to with-draw; which I did, and then M. William Wallin was called in, and while he was within, I gave unto my comrades M. Prince, and M. Overton, and the reſt of the people, a ſummary account of what had paſt between me and them: and within a little time after, M. Walwin cameut again, and M. Overton was called in next: and at M. Walwins coming out, he acquainted us what they ſaid to him, which was in a manner the ſame they ſaid to me; and all that he ſaid to them was but this, That he did not know why he was ſuſpected. To which M. Bradſhaw replyed, Is that all you have to ſay? And M. Walwin anſwered, yes. So he vvas commanded to vvithdraw.

And after M. Overton vvas come out, M. Prince vvas called in, and after he had withdrawn, they ſpent ſome time of debate among themſelves, and then I vvas called in again; So I marched in ſutable to my firſt poſture, and went cloſe to M. Bradſhaw, who ſaid unto me to this effect: Lieut. Colonel Lilburn, This Councel hath conſidered what you have ſaid, and what they have bin informed of concerning you, and alſo of that duty that lies upon them by the command of the Houſe, which enjoyns them to improve their utmoſt ability to find out the Author of this Book; and therefore to effect that end, they judge themſelves bound to demand of you this queſtion: Whether you made not this Book, or were privie to the making of it or no?

And after ſome pauſe, and vvondering at the ſtrangeneſs of the queſtion, I anſwered and ſaid, M. Bradſhaw, I cannot but ſtand ama­zed that you ſhould ask me ſuch a queſtion as this, at this time of the day, conſidering what you ſaid unto me at my firſt being before you; and conſidering it is now about eight yeers ago ſince this very Parlia­ment annihilated the Court of Star-chamber, Councel bord, and High Commiſſion, and that for ſuch proceedings as theſe. **See the Acts that aboliſhed them, made in the 16. C. R. printed in my Book called The peoples Prerogatiue, p.And truly Sir, I have bin a conteſtor and ſufferer for the Liberties of Eng­land theſe twelve yeers together, and I ſhould novv look upon my ſelf as the baſeſt fellovv in the vvorld, if novv in one moment I ſhould undo all that I have bin doing all this vvhile, vvhich I muſt of neceſ­ſity do, if I ſhould anſvver you to queſtions againſt my ſelf; For in the firſt place, by anſvvering this queſtion againſt my ſelf, I ſhould12 betray the Liberties of England, in acknovvledging you to have a Legal Juriſdiction over me, to try and adjudge me; which I have already proved to your fa­ces you have not in the leaſt: and if you have forgot what you ſaid to me thereupon, yet I have not forgot what I ſaid to you. And ſecondly Sir, if I ſhould anſwer to queſtions againſt my ſelf, and ſo betray my ſelf, I ſhould do that which not onely Law, but Na­ture abhors: And therefore I cannot but wonder that you your ſelves are not aſhamed to demand ſo illegal and unworthy a thing**And well might I, for M. John Cook, and M. Bradſhaw himſelf were my Coun­ſel at the Lords Bar, againſt the Star-Chamber, the 13. of Feb. 1645. where M. Bradſhaw did most excellently open the Star-chamber injuſtice towards me; and at the reading of their firſt ſentence, he ob­ſerved to the Lords, that that ſentence was felo de ſe, guilty of its own death; the ground whereof, being becauſe M. Lilburn refuſed to take an oath to anſwer to all ſuch queſtions as ſhould be demanded of him, it being contrary to the Laws of God, Nature, and the Kingdom, for any man to be his own Accuſer: Whoſe words you may more at large read in the Printed relation there­of, drawn up by M. John Cook, and my ſelf, p. 3. of me as this is. And therefore in ſhort, were it that I owned your power (which I do not in the leaſt) I would be hanged, be­fore I would do ſo baſe, and un-Engliſhman-like an Action, to be­tray my Liberty; which I muſt of neceſſity do, in anſwering queſti­ons to accuſe my ſelf: But Sir, This I will ſay to you, my late Actions have not bin done in a hole, or a corner, but on the houſe top, in the face of the Sun, before hundreds and ſome thouſands of people; and therefore why ask you me any queſtions? Go to thoſe that have heard me, and ſeen me, and it is poſſible you may find ſome hundreds of witneſſes to tell you what I have ſaid and done; for I hate holes and corners: My late Actions need no covers nor hidings, they have bin more honeſt than ſo, and I am not ſorry for what I have done, for I did look well about me before I did what I did, and I am ready to lay down my life to juſtifie what I have done; and ſo much in anſwer to your queſtion.

But now Sir, with your favour one word more, to mind you a­gain of what I ſaid before, in reference to my Martial impriſonment; and truly Sir, I muſt tell you, Circumſtantials of my Liberty, at this time I ſhall not much diſpute, but for the Eſſentials of them I ſhall dy: I am now in the Souldiers cuſtody, where to continue in ſilence and patience, is abſolutely to betray my Liberty; for they have no­thing13 to do with me, nor the meaneſt Free-man of England in this caſe; and beſides Sir, they have no rules to walk by, but their wills and their ſwords, which are two dangerous things; it may be I may be of an haſty cholerick temper, and not able nor wil­ling to bear their affronts; and peradventure they may be as willing to put them upon me, as I am unwilling to bear them; and for you in this caſe to put fire and tinder together, to burn up one an other, will not be much commendable, nor tend much to the accompliſhment of your ends; But if for all this, you ſhall ſend me back to the Military ſword again, either to White-hall, or any other ſuch like gariſon'd place in England, I do ſolemnly pro­test before the Eternal God of Heaven and Earth, I will fire it, and burn it down to the ground, if poſſibly I can, although I be burnt to aſhes with the flames thereof; for Sir, I ſay again, the ſouldiers have nothing to do to be my Goalers; and beſides, it is a maxime among the ſouldiers, That they muſt obey (without diſpute) all the Commands of their Officers, be they right or wrong; and it is alſo the maxime amongſt the Officers, That if they do not do it, they muſt hang for it: therefore if the Offi­cers command them to cut my throat, they muſt either do it, or hang for it. And truly Sir, (looking vviſh­fully upon Cromwell, that ſate juſt againſt me) I muſt be plain with you, I have not found ſo much Honour, Honeſty, Juſtice, or Conſci­ence, in any of the principal Officers of the Army, as to truſt my life under their pro­tection, or to think it can be**And truly I am more than afraid honeſt Capt. Bray hath too much experience of this at Windſor Caſtle, who though he be but barely committed thither into ſafe cuſtody, yet (as I from very good hands am informed) the Tyrannical Governour Whichcock, Cromwels creature, doth keep him cloſe pri­ſoner, denying him the benefit of the Caſtle Ayre, keeping not onely pen and inke from him, but alſo his friends and neceſſaries with which cruelty &c. he hath already almost murdered and deſtroyed the honeſt man; in whoſe place were I, and ſo illegally and unjuſtly uſed, a flame (if poſſibly I could ſhould be the portion of my chamber, although I periſhed in it. ſafe under their immediate fingers; and therefore not knowing, nor very much caring what you will do with me, I earneſtly in­treat you, if you will again impriſon me; ſend me to a Civil Goal that the Law knows, as Newgate, the Fleet, or the Gate-houſe,14 and although you ſend me to a Dungeon, thither I vvill go in Peace and quietneſs, vvithout any further diſpute of your authority. For vvhen I come there, I know thoſe Goalers have their bound and limits ſet them by the Law, and I know how to carry my ſelf towards them, and what to expect from them; and if they do abuſe me, I know how in law to help my ſelf. And ſo Sir, I have ſaid what at preſent I have to ſay. Whereupon M. Brad­ſhaw commanded the Sergeant to put me out at an other dore, that ſo I ſhould no more go amongſt the people; and immediatly M. Walwin was put out to me, and asking him what they ſaid to him, I found it to be the ſame in effect they ſaid to me, demand­ing the ſame fore-going queſtion of him, that they did of me: to which queſtion, (after ſome kind of pauſe) he anſwered to this ef­fect, That he could not but very much wonder to be asked ſuch a queſtion, however that it was very much againſt his Judgement and Conſcience to anſwer to queſtions of that nature, which con­cerned himſelf; that if he ſhould anſwer to it, he ſhould not onely betray his own Liberty, but the Liberties of all Engliſhmen, which he could not do with a good Conſcience; And he could not but ex­ceedingly grieve at the dealing he had found that day; That being one who had alwaies bin ſo faithful to the Parliament, and ſo well known to moſt of the Gentlemen there preſent, that nevertheleſs he ſhould be ſent for with a party of Horſe and Foot, to the affrighting of his Family, and ruine of his credit; And that he could not be ſatisfied, but that if was very hard meaſure, to be uſed thus upon ſuſpition onely; And that if they did hold him under reſtraint from following his buſineſs and occaſions, it might be his undoing, which he conceived they ought ſeriouſly to conſider of.

Then M. Bradſhaw ſaid, he was to anſwer the queſtion, and that they did not ask it as in way of Tryal, ſo as to proceed in Judgement thereupon, but to report it to the Houſe. To which M. Walwin ſaid, That he had anſwered it ſo as he could with a good Conſcience, and could make no other Anſwer, and ſo with-drew.

And after he came out to me, M. Overton was next called in againe, and then M. Prince, ſo after we were all come out, and all foure in a roome cloſe by them, all alone, I laid my eare to their dore, and heard Lieutenant General Cromwel (I am ſure of it) very loud, thumping his fiſt upon the Councel Table, til it rang againe,15 and heard him ſpeak in theſe very words, or to this effect; I tel you Sir, you have no other way to deale with theſe men, but to break them in pieces; and thumping upon the Councel Table againe, he ſaid Sir, let me tel you that which is true, if you do not breake them, they will break you; yea, and bring all the guilt of the blood and treaſure ſhed and ſpet in this Kingdom upon your heads and ſhoulders; and fruſtrate and make voide all that worke, that with ſo many yeares induſtry, toile and paines you have done, and ſo ren­der you to all rationall men in the world, as the moſt contemptible generation, of ſilly, low ſpirited men in the earth, to be broken and routed by ſuch a deſpicable contemptible generation of men as they are; and therfore Sir I tel you againe, you are neceſſitated to break them, but being a little diſturbed by the ſuppoſition of one of their Meſſengers coming into the roome, I could not ſo well heare the anſwer to him, which I think was Col. Ludlows voyce, who preſſed to baile us, for I could very well heare him ſay, what would you have more than ſecurity for them? Vpon which diſcourſe of Crom­wels, the blood run up and down my veines, and I heartily wiſht my ſelf in againe amongſt them being ſcarſe able to contain my ſelf) that ſo I might have gone five, or ſix ſtories higher than I did before, yea, as high as I intended when I came to their dore, and to have particularly paid Cromwel and Haſleridge to the purpoſe, for their late venome not only againſt me in the Houſe, but my whole family, Haſleridge ſaying (as I am informed) in the open Houſe, there was never an one of the Lilburns family fit or worthy to be a Constable in England, though I am confident there is not the worſt of us alive that have ſerved the Parliament, but he is a hundred times more juſt honeſt and unſpoted than he himſelf, as in due time I ſhal make it appeare by Gods aſſiſtance (I hope) to his ſhame: But the faire carriage of the Gentlemen of the ſuppoſed Councel to me at the firſt, tooke off the height of the edge of my ſpirit, and intended reſolution; which it may be they ſhal have the next time to this effect. You your ſelves have already voted the People under God, the Fountain and Original of all juſt power, And if ſo, then none can make them Laws, but thoſe that are choſen, impowred, and be truſted by them for that end; and if that be true, as undoubtedly it is, I deſire to know how the preſent Gentlemen at Weſtminſter can make it appeare they are the peo­ples16 Repreſentatives, being rather choſen by the wil of him, whoſe head as a Tyrant and Traytor, they have by their wills chopt off (I mean the King) then by the people: whoſe Will made the Borough Townes to chuſe Parliament men, and there by rob'd above nine­teen people of this Nation, of their undubitable and inherent right, to give to a ſingle man in twenty for number (in reference to the whole Nation) a Monopoly to chuſe Parliament men; diſ­franchiſing therereby the other nineteen, and if ſo in any meaſure, than this; upon their own declared principles they are no Repre­ſentative of the people, no nor was not at the firſt; Again, the King ſummoned them by his Writ, the iſſue of his will and pleaſure, and by vertue of that they ſit to this houre; Again, the King by his Will and pleaſure combines with them by an Act to make them a perpetual Parliament (one of the worſt and tyranicalleſt actions that ever he did in his life) to ſit as long as they pleaſed, which he nor they had no power to do in the leaſt, the very conſtitution of Parliaments in England, being to be once every yeare, or oftner if need require; Quere, Whether this act of perpetuating this Par­liament by the Parliament men themſelves beyond their Com­miſſion, was not an act in them of the higheſt Treaſon in the world againſt the People and their liberties, by ſetting up themſelves an arbitrary power over them for ever? Yea, and thereby razing the foundation and conſtitution of Parliament it ſelf: And if ſo, then this is nul, if at the firſt it had bin any thing.

Again, if it ſhould be granted this Parliament at the beginning had a legal conſtitution from the people (the original and fountaine of all juſt power) yet the Faction of a trayterous party of Officers of the Army, hath twice rebelled againſt the Parliament, and broke them to pieces, and by force of Armes culled out whom they pleaſe, and impriſoned divers of them and laid nothing to their charge, and have left only in a manner a few men, beſides eleven of themſelves viz. the General, Cromwel, Ireton, Harriſon, Fleet­wood, Rich, Ingolſby, Haſleridge, Conſtable, Fennick, Walton and Allen, Treaſurer; of their own Faction behind them that will like Span el-doggs ſerve their luſts and wills; yea ſome of the chiefeſt of them, viz. Ireton, Harriſon, &c. yea, M. Holland himſelf, ſtiling them a mocke Parliament a mocke power at Wind­ſor, yea, it is yet their expreſſions at London; And if this be true that17 they are a mocke power and a mocke Parliament; then,

Quere, Whether in Law or Juſtice, eſpecially conſidering they have fallen from al their many glorious promiſes, & have not done any one action that tends to the univerſal good of the Peolpe? Can thoſe Gentlemen ſiting at Weſtminſter in the Houſe, called the Houſe of Commons, be any other than a Factious company of men trayterouſly combined together with Crom. Ireton, and Harriſon, to ſubdue the Laws, Liberties, and Freedomes of England; (for no one of them proteſt againſt the reſt) and to ſet up an abſolute and perfect Tyranny of the Sword, Will and pleaſure, and abſo­lutely intend the deſtroying the Trade of the Nation, and the ab­ſolute impoveriſhing, the people thereof, to ſit them to be their Vaſſals and Slaves; And if ſo, then,

Quere, Whether the Free People of England, as well Soldiers as others, ought not to contemne all theſe mens commands, as invalid and illegal in themſelves, and as one man to riſe up againſt them as ſo many profeſſed traytors, theives, robbers and high way men, and apprehend and bring them to juſtice in a new Repreſentative, choſen by vertue of a juſt Agreement among the People, there being no other way in the world to preſerue the Nation but that alone; the three forementioned men, viz. Cromwel, Ireton, and Harriſon, (the Generall being but their Stalking horſe, and a Cifer) and there trayterous**For the greatest Traytors they are that ever were in this nati­on, as upon the loſſe of my head I John Lilburn will by law un­dertake to prove and make good, before the next free Parliament, to whom Ihereby appeale. faction, having by their wills and Swords, got all the Swords of Eng­land under their command; and the diſ­poſing of all the great places in England by Sea and Land, and alſo the pretended Law making power, and the pretended law executing power, by making among themſelves (contrary to the Laws and and Liberties of England) all Iudges, Iuſtices of peace, Sherifes, Balifes, Committee men &c. to execute their wills and Tyranny, walking by no limits or bounds but their own wills and pleaſures; And traytorouſly aſſume unto them­ſelves a power to levy upon the people what money they pleaſe; and diſpoſe of it as they pleaſe, yea even to buy knifes to cut the peoples throats that pay the mony to them, and to give no account for it til Doomes Day in the afternoone; they having already in18 their wills and power to diſpoſe of the Kings, Queens, Princes, Dukes, and the reſt of the childrens Revenue; Deans and Chapters lands, Biſhops lands, ſequeſtered Delinquents lands, ſequeſtred Papiſts lands, Compoſitions of all ſorts, amounting to millions of money; beſides Exciſe, and Cuſtomes; yet this is not enough, al­though if rightly husbanded it would conſtantly pay above one hundred thouſand men, and furniſh an anſwerable Navy there un­to: But the people muſt now after their trades are loſt, and their eſtates ſpent to procure their liberties and freedoms, be ceſſed a­bout 100000. pound a moneth, that ſo they may be able like ſo many cheaters and State theeues, to give 6. 8. 10. 12. 14. 16, thouſand pounds a peice over again to one another, as they have done already to divers of themſelves to buy the Common wealths lands one of another, (contrary to the duty of Truſtees, who by law nor equity can neither give nor ſel to one another) at two or three years purchaſe the true and valuable rate conſidered, as they have already done, and to give 4 or 5000l per annum over again to King Cromwel, as they have done already out of the Earle of Wroceſters eſtate, &c. Beſides about four or five pounds a day he hath by his places of Lieut. General, and Collonel of Horſe in the Army, although he were at the beginning of this Parlia­ment but a poore man, yea, little better than a begger (to what he is now) as well as other of his neighbours.

But to return, thoſe gentlemen that would have had us bailed loſt the day, by one vote as we underſtood; and then about 12. at night they broke up, & we went into their pretended Secretary, & found our commitments made in theſe words, our names changed, viz.

Theſe are to will and require you, to receive herewith into your cuſtody, the perſon of Lieut. Col. John Lilburn, and him ſafely to keep in your Priſon of the Tower of London, until you receive far­ther order, he being committed to you upon ſuſpition of high Trea­ſon, of which you are not to faile, and for which this ſhal be your ſufficient Warrant;

Signed in the name, and by the Order of the Councel of State,〈◊〉appointed by authority of Parliament. Jo. Bradſhaw. Preſident.
To the Lieut. of the〈◊◊〉of London.

19Note that we were committed upon Wedneſday their faſt day, being the beſt fruits that ever any of their faſts brought out amongſt them, viz. To ſmite with the fiſt of wickedneſs. For the illegality of this Warrant, I ſhall not ſay much, becauſe it is like all the reſt of the Warrants of the preſent Houſe of Commons, and their unjuſt Com­mittees; whoſe Warrants are ſo ſufficiently anatomiſed by my quon­dam Comrade, M. Iohn Wildman, in his books, called Truths Try­umph, and the Laws ſubverſion, being Sir Iohn Maynards caſe truly ſtated; and by my ſelf, in my late Plea before the Judges of the Kings Bench, now in print, and intituled The Laws Funeral, that it is needleſs to ſay any more of that particular, and therefore to them I refer the Reader. But to go on, when we had read our Warrants we told M. Froſt we would not diſpute the legality of them, becauſe we were under the force of Guards of Armed muſquettiers: So ſome time was ſpent to find a man that would go with us to priſon, Capt. Ienkins (as I remember his name) being Capt. of the Guard, and my old and familiar acquaintance, was prevailed with by us, to take the charge upon him, who uſed us very Civilly, and gave us leave that night (it being ſo late) to go home to our wives, and took our words with ſome other of our friends then preſent, to meet him in the morning at the Angel Tavern neer the Tower; which we did ac­cordingly, and ſo marched with him into the Tower; where coming up to the Lieut. houſe, and after ſalutes each of other with very much civility, the Lieut. read his Warrants: and M. Walwin as our appoint­ed mouth, acquainted him that we were Engliſhmen, who had ha­zarded all we had for our Liberties & Freedoms for many yeers to­gether, and were reſolved (though Priſoners) not to part with an inch of our Freedoms, that with ſtrugling for we could keep, and therefore we ſhould neither pay fees nor chamber rent, but what the Law did exactly require us; neither ſhould we eate or drink of our own coſt and charges ſo long as we could faſt; telling him it was our unqueſtionable right by Law, and the cuſtom of this place, to be provided for out of the publike Treaſure, although we had never ſo much mony in our pockets of our own, which he granted to be true; and after ſome more debate I told him, we were not ſo irrational as to expect that he out of his own money ſhould provide for us: but the principal end of our diſcourſe with him was, to put words in his mouth from our ſelves, (he being now our Guardian) to move20 the Parliament or Councel of State about us, which he hath acquain­ted us he did to the Councel of State, who he ſaith granted, the King or former times uſed to provide for the Priſoners, but I ſay, they will not be ſo juſt as he was in that particular, although they have taken off his head for tyranny, yet they muſt and will be greater Tyrants than he, yea, and they have reſolved upon the Queſtion, that he ſhall be a Traytor that ſhall but tell them of their tyranny, although it be never ſo viſible.

So now I have brought the Reader to my old and contented Lodging in the Tower, where within two, or three dayes of our ar­rival there, came one M. Richardſon a Preacher amongſt thoſe un­natural, un-Engliſh-like men, that would now help to deſtroy the innocent, and the firſt promoters in England (as Cromwels beagles to do his pleaſure) of the firſt Petition for a Perſonal Treaty almoſt 2, yeers ago, and commonly ſtile themſelves the Preachers to the 7 Churches of Anabaptiſts, which Richardſon pretending a great deal of affection to the Common wealth to Cromwel, & to us, preſt very hard for union and peace, (and yet by his petition ſince this, endea­vors to hang us) teling us, men cryed mightily out upon us abroad for grand diſturbers, that ſought Crom. bloud for al his good ſervice to the Nation, and that would center no where, but meerly laboured to pul down thoſe in power, to ſet up our ſelves: And after a little diſcourſe with him, being all 4. preſent, and retorting all he ſaid back upon thoſe he ſeemed to plead for, before ſeveral witneſſes, we appealed to his own conſcience, whether thoſe could intend any hurt or tyrannie to the people, that deſires, and earneſtly endeavours for many yeers together, that all Magiſtrates hands might be bound and limited by a juſt law and rule, with a penalty annexed unto it, that in caſe they outſtrip their rule, they might forſet life & eſtate, and that al Magiſtra­tes might be choſen by the free people of this Nation by common conſent, according to their undubitable right, & often removed, that ſo they might not be like ſtanding waters, ſubject to corruption; and that the people might have a plain, eaſie, ſhort, and known Rule a­mongſt themſelves to walk by; but ſuch men were all we; and there­fore juſtly could not be ſtiled diſturbers of any, but onely ſuch as ſought to rule over the people by their abſolute Wills and pleaſures, and would have no bounds or limits but their luſts, and ſo ſought to ſet up a perfect tyranny, which we abſolutely did, and ſtil do charge21 upon the great men in the Army, and are ready before indifferent Judges to make it good. And as for ſeeking ourſelves, we need no other witneſſes but ſome of our preſent adverſaries in the Houſe, whoſe great preffered places, and courtſhip by themſelves and their Agents ſome of us have from time to time ſlighted, ſcorned, and contemned, till they would conclude to come to a declared and reſol­ved center, by a juſt Agreement of the People; there being no other way now in the World to make this Nation free, happy, or ſafe, but that alone. And as for Cromwels bloud, although he had dealt baſely enough with ſome of us in times by-paſt, by thirſting after ours, without cauſe; of whom (if revenge had bin our deſire) we could have had it the laſt yeer to the purpoſe, eſpecially when his quondam Darling, Maj. Huntington, (Maj. to his own Regiment) impeached him of Treaſon to both Houſes: yet ſo deer was the good of our native Country to us, to whom we judged him then a ſervice­able Inſtrument to ballance the Scots, that we laid all revenge aſide, hoping his often diſſembled Repentances was real indeed; and M. Hol­land himſelf (now his favorite) if his 1000. or 1500.l. per annum of the Kings Lands, that now he enjoys, did not make him forget him­ſelf, can ſufficiently teſtifie and witneſs our unwearied and hazardous Activity for Cromwels particular preſervation the laſt yeer, when his great friends in the Houſe durſt not publikely ſpeak for him.

And whereas it is ſaid we will Center no where, we have too juſt cauſe to charge that upon them; the whole ſtream of all our Actions (as we told Richardſon) being a continued Declaration of our earneſt Deſires to come to a determinate and fixed center: one of us making ſufficient propoſitions to that purpoſe to the Councel of State at our laſt being there and all our many and late proffers as to that parti­cular, they have hitherto rejected, as no waies conſiſtent with their tyranical and ſelfiſh ends and deſigns: and have given us no other anſwer in effect, but the ſending our bodies priſoners to the Tower: and therefore we judged it infinitely below us (as we told him) and that glorious cauſe (the Peoples Liberties and Freedoms, that we are now in bonds for) & for which we ſuffer, to ſend any meſſage but a de­fiance by him or any other to them. Yet to let him know (as one we judged honeſt, and our friend) we were men of reaſon, moderation, and juſtice, and ſought nothing particularly for our ſelves, more than our common ſhare in the common freedom, tranquility, and peace22 of the land of our Nativity: We would let him know, we had a two fold Center, and if he pleaſed of and from himſelf to let our Adverſaries know, we were willing our adverſaries ſhould have their choiſe to which of the two they would hold us to.

And therefore ſaid we in the firſt place, The Officers of the Army have already compiled, and publiſhed to the view of the Nation, an A­greement of the people, which they have preſented to the preſent Par­liament; againſt which we make ſome exceptions, which exceptions are contained in our Addreſſes: Now let them but mend their Agree­ment according to our exceptions, and ſo far as all our intereſt ex­tends in the whole Nation, we wil acquieſce and reſt there, and be at peace with them, & live and dy with them in the purſuance of thoſe ends; and be content for Cromwel and Iretons ſecurity, &c. for the bloud of war ſhed in time of peace at Ware, or any thing elſe; and to free our ſelves that we thirſt after none of their bloud, but onely our juſt Liberties (without which we can never fit down in peace) That there ſhall be a clauſe, to bury all things in oblivion, as to life and li­berty, excepting onely eſtate; that ſo the Common-wealth may have an account of their monies in Treaſurers hands, &c.

Or ſecondly, if they judge our exceptions againſt their Agree­ment (or any one of them) irrational, let them chuſe any 4. men in England, and let Cromwel and Ireton be 2. of them, and take the o­ther 2. where they pleaſe, in the whole nation, and we 4. now in pri­ſon, will argue the caſe in reaſon with them, and if we can agree, there is an end, as to us, and all our intereſt, but in caſe we cannot, let them (ſaid we all) chuſe any 2. members of the Houſe of Commons, and we will chuſe 2. more, viz. Col. Alex. Rigby, and Col. Henry Martin, to be final umpires betwixt us, and what they, or the major part of them determine, as to us (in relation to an Agreement) and all our intereſt in the whole land, we will acquieſce in, be content with, and ſtand to without wavering: and this we conceive to be as rational, juſt, and fair, as can be offered by any men upon earth: and I for my part, ſay and proteſt before the Almighty, I will yet ſtand to this, and if this will content them, I have done; if not, fall back, fal edge, let them do their worſt, I for my part bid defiance to them, aſ­ſuredly knowing, they can do no more to me, than the divel did to Iob: for reſolved by Gods aſſiſtance I am, to ſpend my heart bloud againſt them, if they will not condeſcend to a juſt Agreement that may be23 good for the whole Nation; that ſo we may have a new and as e­qual a Repreſentative as may be, choſen by thoſe that have not fought againſt their freedoms, although I am as deſirous the Cava­liers ſhould enjoy the benefit of the Law, for the protection of their perſons and eſtates, as well as my ſelf. I know they have an Army at command, but if every hair on the head of that Officer or Souldier they have at their command, were a legion of men, I would fear them no more than ſo many ſtraws, for the Lord Iehovah is my rock and defence, under the aſſured ſhelter of whoſe wings, I am ſafe and ſe­cure, and therefore will ſing and be merry; and do hereby ſound an eternal trumpet of defiance to all the men and divels in earth and hell, but only thoſe men that have the image of God in them, and demonſtrate it among men, by their juſt, honeſt, merciful, and righ­teous actions. And as for all thoſe vild Actions their ſaint-like A­gents have fixed upon me of late, I know before God none is righteous no not one, but only he that is clothed with the glorious righteouſneſs of Ieſus Chriſt, which I aſſuredly know my ſoul hath bin, and now is clothed with, in the ſtrength of which I have walked for above 12 yeers together, and through the ſtrength of which, I have bin able at any time in al that time, to lay down my life in a quarter of an hours warning. But as to man, I bid defiance to all my Adverſaries upon earth, to ſearch my waies and goings with a candle, and to lay any one baſe Action to my charge in any kind whatſoever, ſince the firſt day that I viſible made profeſſion of the fear of God, which is now above twelve yeares; yea, I bid defiance to him or them, to proclaim it upon the houſe toe, provided he will ſet his hand to it, and pro­claim a publique place, where before indifferent men, in the face of rhe Sun, his accuſation may be ſcand; yea, I here declare, that if any man or woman in England, either in reference to my publique actions, to the States money, or in reference to my private dealings in the world ſhal come in and prove againſt me, that ever I defrau­ded him, or her of twelve pence, and for every twelve pence that I have ſo done, I will make him or her twenty ſhillings worth of a­mends, ſo far as all the eſtate I have in the world will extend.

Curteous Reader, and deer Countryman, excuſe I be­ſeech thee my boaſting and glorying, for I am neceſſita­ted to it, my adverſaries baſe and lying calumniations puting me upon it, and Paul and Samuel did it before me: and ſo I am thine, if thou art for the iuſt Freedoms and Liberties of the land of thy Nativity.

IOHN LILBVRN, that never yet changed his principles from better to worſe, nor could never be threatned out of them, nor courted from them, that never feared the rich nor mighty, nor never deſpi­ſed the poor nor needy, but alwaies hath, and hopes by Gods goodneſs to continue, ſem­per idem.

24

Poſtſcript.

CƲrteous Reader, I have much wondered with my ſelf, what ſhould make moſt of the Preachers in the Anabaptiſt Congre­gations ſo mad at us foure, as this day to deliver ſo baſe a Petition, in the intention of it againſt us all four; (who have bin as hazardous Sticklers for their particular liberties, as any be in England) and never put a provocation upon them that I know of, eſpecially, conſi­dering the moſt, if not all their Congregations (as from divers of their own members I am informed) proteſted againſt their intenti­ons openly in their Congregations, upon the Lords day laſt, and I am further certainly informed that the aforſaid Petition the Preachers delivered, is not that which was read by themſelves amongſt the people; but another of their own framing ſince, which I cannot hear was ever read in any one of their Congregations: So that for the Preachers viz. M. Kiffin, M. Spilsbury, M. Patience, M. Draps, M. Richardſon, M. Conſtant, M. Wayd, the Schoolemaſter, &c. to deliver it to the Parliament in the name of their Congregations; they have delivered it a lye and a falſhood, and are a pack of faun­ing daubing knaues for ſo doing, but as I underſtand from one of M. Kiffins members, Kiffin himſelf did ingenuouſly confeſſe upon Lords day laſt, in his open Congregation, that he was put upon the doing of what he did by ſome Parliament men, who he perceived were willing and deſirous to be rid of us four, ſo they might come off handſomely without too much loſſe of credit to themſelves: and therefore intend­ded to take a riſe from their Petition to free us, and for that end it was, that in their Petition read in the Congregations, after they had ſufficiently beſpattered us, yet in the concluſion they beg mecy for us; becauſe we had bin formerly active for the Publique. Secondly, I have bin lately told, ſome of the Congregationall Preachers are very mad, at a late publiſhed and licenſed booke ſold in Popes head Alley and Cornhill, intituled, The vanity of the preſent Churches; ſuppo­ſing it to be the Pen of ſome of our friends, and therefore out of re­venge might Petition againſt us; I confeſſe I have within a few houres ſeen and read the booke, and not before, and muſt ingenuouſly confeſſe, it is one of the ſhrewdeſt bookes that ever I read in my life, and do believe it may be poſſible they may be netled to the purpoſe at it; but I wiſh every honeſt unbyaſed man in England would ſeriouſly read it over,

John Lilburn.
25

The Proceedings of the Councel of State againſt Richard Overton, now priſoner in the Tower of London.

UPon the twenty eigth of March 1649, a partie of Horſe and Foot commanded by Lieut. Colonel Axtel (a man highly pre­tending to religion,) came betwixt five and ſix of the morning to the houſe where I then lodged, in that hoſtile manner to apprehend me, as by the ſequel appeared.

But now, to give an account of the particular circumſtances at­tending that action, may ſeem frivolous, as to the Publick; but in regard the Lieutenant Colonel was pleaſed ſo far to out-ſtrip the the capacity of a Saint, as to betake himſelf to the venomed Arrows of lying calumnies and reproaches, to wound (through my ſides) the too much forſaken cauſe of the poor oppreſſed people of this long waſted Common-wealth: like as it hath been the practice of all perfidious Tyrants in all ages. I ſhall therefore trouble the Reader with the rehearſall of all the the occurrant circumſtances which attended his apprehenſion of me, that the world may cleer­ly judge betwixt us. And what I here deliver from my pen as touching this matter, I do deliver it to be ſet upon the Record of my account, as I will anſwer it at the dreadfull day of judgment, when the ſecrets of all hearts ſhall be opened, and every one receive according to his deeds done in the fleſh: and God ſo dead with me at that day, as in this thing I ſpeak the truth: And if the ranko­rous ſpirits of men will not be ſatisfied therewith, I have no more to ſay but this, to commit my ſelf to God in the joyful reſt of a good conſcience, and not value what inſatiable envie can ſuggeſt againſt me. Thus then to the buſineſſe it ſelf.

In the Houſe where I then lodged that night there lived three families, one of the Gentlemen being my very good friend, with26 whom all that night hee and I onely lay in bed together, and his Wife and childe lay in another bed by themſelves: and when they knock'd at the door, the Gentleman was up and ready, and his Wife alſo, for ſhe roſe before him, and was ſuckling her childe: and I was alſo up, but was not completely dreſt; And of this the Gentleman himſelf (her Husband) hath taken his oath before one of the Maſters of the Chancery. And we three were together in a Chamber diſcourſing, he and I intending about our buſineſſe immediately to go abroad, and hearing them knock, I ſaid, Yonder they are come for me. Whereupon, ſome books that lay upon the table in the room, were thrown into the beds betwixt the ſheets (and the books were all the perſons he found there in the beds, except he took us for printed papers, and then there were many;) and the Gentleman went down to go to the door; and as ſoon as the books were caſt a to-ſide, I went to put on my boots; and before the Gentleman could get down the ſtairs, a girl of the houſe had opened the door, and let them in, and ſo meeting the Gentleman upon the ſtairs, Axtel commanded ſome of the ſouldiers to ſeize upon him, and take him into cuſtodie, and not ſuffer him to come up: And I hearing a voice from below, that one would ſpeak with me, I went to the chamber door (it being open) and immediatly appeared a Musketier (Corporal Neaves, as I take it) and he asked me if my name were not Mr. Overton: I anſwered, it was Overton; and ſo I ſat me down upon the bed ſide to pull on my other boot, as if I had but new riſen, the better to ſhelter the books; and that Corporal was the firſt man that entered into the chamber, and after him one or two more, and then followed the Lieutenant Colonel; and the Cor­poral told me, I was the man they were come for, and bade me make me ready: and the Lieutenant Colonel when he came in, asked me how I did, and told me, they would uſe me civilly, and bid me put on my boots, and I ſhould have time enough to make me ready: And immediately upon this the Lieutenant Colonel began to abuſe me with ſcandalous language, and asked me, if the Gentlewoman who then ſate ſuckling her childe, were not one of my wives, and averred that ſhe and I lay together that night. Then the Gentleman hearing his Wife call'd Whore, and abuſed ſo ſhamefully, got from the ſouldiers, and ran up ſtairs; and coming into the room where we were, he taxed the Lieutenant Colonel for abuſing of his Wife and27 me, and told him, that he and I lay together that night: But the Lieutenant Colonel, out of that little diſcretion he had about him, took the Gentleman by the hand, ſaying, How doſt thou, brether Cuckcold? uſing other ſhamefull ignorant and abuſive language, not worthy repeating. Well, upon this his attempt thus to make me his priſoner, I demanded his Warrant; and he ſhewed me a Warrant from the Councell of State, with Mr. Bradſhaw's hand to it, and with the Broad Seal of England to it, (as he call'd it) to apprehend Lieutenant Colonel Lilburn, Mr. Walwine, Mr. Prince, and my ſelf, where-ever they could finde us. And as ſoon as I was dreſt, he commanded the Musketiers to take me away; and as ſoon as I was down ſtairs, he remanded me back again into the chamber where he took me, and then told me, he muſt ſearch the houſe, and commanded the trunks to be opened, or they ſhould be broken open: and commanded one of the ſouldiers to ſearch my pockets. I deman­ded his Warrant for that: He told me, he had a Warrant, I had ſeen it. I anſwered, That was for the apprehenſion of my perſon; and bid him ſhew his Warrant for ſearching my pockets, and the houſe: and according to my beſt remembrance, he replyed, He ſhould have a Warrant. So little reſpect had he to Law, Juſtice, and Reaſon; and vi & armis, right or wrong, they fell to work, (inconſiderately devolving all law, right, and freedom betwixt man and man into their Sword, for the conſequence of it extend, from one to all) and his party farmed Horſe and Foot (joyned to his over-hairy exorbitant will) was his irreſiſtible Warrant: And ſo they ſearched my pockets, and took all they found in them, my mony excepted, and ſearched the trunks, chests, beds, &c. And the Lieu­tenant Colonel went into the next chamber, where lived an honeſt Souldier (one of the Lieutenant Generals Regiment) and his wife, and took away his ſword, and vilified the Gentleman and his wife, as if ſhe had be a his whore, and took him priſoner for lying with a woman, as he ſaid. He alſo went up to the Gentleman who lets out the rooms, and caſt the like impurations upon his wife, as alſo upon a Maid that lives in the houſe, and gave it out in the Court and Street, amongſt the ſouldiers and neighbours that it was a Bawdy-houſe, and that all the women that lived in it were whores, and that he had taken me in bed with another mans Wife. Well, he having ranſack'd the houſe, found many books in the beds, and28 taken away all ſuch writings, papers, and books, of what ſort or kind ſoever, that he could finde, and given them to the ſouldiers, (amongſt which he took away certain papers which were my for­mer Meditations upon the works of the Creation, intituled, God Word confirmed by his Works; wherein I endeavoured the proba­tion of a God, a Creation, a State of Innocencie, a Fall, a Reſurre­ction, a Reſtorer, a Day of Judgment, &c. barely from the conſide­ration of things viſible and created: and theſe papers I reſerved to perfect and publiſh as ſoon as I could have any reſt from the turmoils of this troubled Common-wealth: and for the loſs of thoſe papers I am only troubled: all that I deſire of my enemies hands, is but the reſtitution of thoſe papers, that what-ever be­comes of me, they may not be buried in oblivion, for they may prove uſefull to many.) Well, when the Lieutenant Colonel had thus far miſtaken himſelf, his Religion and Reaſon thus unworthily to abuſe me and the houſhold in that ſcandalous nature, unbe­ſeeming the part of a Gentleman, a Souldier, or a Chriſtian (all which titles he claimeth) and had tranſgreſſed the limits of his Au­thority, by ſearching, ranſacking, plundering, and taking away what he pleaſed, he march'd me in the head of his party to Pauls Church-yard, and by the way commanded the ſouldiers to lead me by the arm; and from thence, with a guard of three Companies of Foot, and a party of Horſe, they forced me to Whitehall; and the ſouldiers carried the books ſome upon their Muskets, ſome un­der their arms: but by the way (upon our march) the Corporall that firſt entred the room (whoſe word in that reſpect is more va­luable then Axtels) confeſs'd unto me (in the audience of the Soul­dier they took alſo with them from the place of my lodging) that the Lieutenant Colonel had dealt uncivilly and unworthily with me, and that there was no ſuch matter of taking me in bed with an other woman, &c. And this the ſaid ſouldier will depoſe upon his oath.

When I came to White-hall, I was delivered into the hands of Adjutant General Stubber, where I found my worthy friends Liev­tenant Collonel, John Lilburn, Mr. Wallwin, and Mr. Prince in the ſame captivity under the Martiall uſurpation: and after I had been there a while, upon the motion of Leivtenant Collonel Lil­burne, that Leivtenant Collonell Axſtell, and I might be brought29 face to face about the matter of ſcandall that was raiſed, he coming there unto us, and queſtioned about the report he had gi­ven out, there averd, that he took me a bed with an other mans wife; and being asked if he ſaw us actually in bed together, he an­ſwered, we were both in the Chamber together, and the woman had ſcarce got on her coates, (which was a notorious untruth) and ſhe ſae ſuckling of her child, and from theſe circumſtances he did believe we did lie together, and that he ſpake according to his con­ſcience what he beleeved. Theſe were his words, or to the like ef­fect, to which I replied, as a fore-mentioned. But how ſhort this was of a man pretending ſo much conſcience and ſanctity as he doth I leave to all unprejudiced people to judge: it is no point of Chri­ſtian faith (to which is ſo great a pretender) to foment a lye for a wicked end, and then to plead it his beleif and conſcience, for the eaſier credence of his malitious aſpertion: but though the words belief and Conſcience be too ſpecious Evangelicall tearms, no true­ly conſciencious perſon will ſay they are to be uſed, or rather abu­ſed to ſuch evill ends. Well in that company I having taxed him for ſearching my pockets, and without warrant, he anſwered; that becauſe I was ſo baſe a fellow, he did what he could to deſtroy me. And then the better to make up the meaſure of the reproach he had raiſed, he told us, it was now an opinion amongſt us to have community of women; I deſired him to name one of that opinion, he anſwered me, It may be I was of that opinion, and I told him, it may be he was of that opinion, and that my may be was a good as his May be: whereupon he replyed, that I was a ſawſy fellow. Surely the Lievtenant Collonel at that inſtant had forgot the Bug­get from whence he dropt, I preſume when he was a pedler in Harſord-ſhire he had not ſo lofty an eſteem of himſelf, but now the caſe is altered, the Gentleman is become one of the Gran­dees of the Royall palace: one of the (mok) Saints in ſeaſon, now judgeing the Earth, inſpired with providence and oppertuni­ties at pleaſure of their own invention as quick and as nimble as an Hocas Spocas, or a Piend in a Juglers Box, they are not fleſh and bloud, as are the wicked, they are all ſpirituall, all heavenly, the pure Camelions of the time, they are this or that or what you pleaſe, in a trice, in a twinkling of an eye; there is no form, no ſhape that you can fancy among men, into which their Spiritualli­ties30 are not changeable at pleaſure; but for the moſt part, theſe holy men preſent themſelves in the perfect figure of Angels of light, of ſo artificiall reſemblance, enough to deceive the very E­lect if poſſible, that when they are entered their Sanctum Sancto­rum, their holy convocation at White-hall, they then ſeem no o­ther then a quire of Arch-Angels, of Cherubins and Seraphims, chanting their falſ-holy Halelujaes of victory over the people, ha­ving put all principalities and powers under their feet, and the Kingdom and dominion and the greatneſs of the Kingdom is theirs, and all Dominions, even all the people ſhall ſerve and o­bey them, [excuſe me, it is but their own Counterfeit Dialect, under which their pernitious hipocriſy is vailed that I retort into their boſoms, that you may know them within and without, not that I have any intention of reflection upon holy writ] and now theſe men of Jeruſalem (as I may terme them) thoſe painted Se­pulchers of Sion after their long conjuring together of providences, opportunities and ſeaſons one after another, dreſt out to the people in the ſacred ſhape of Gods Time, (as after the language of their new fangled Saint-ſhips I may ſpeak it) they have brought their ſeaſons to perfection, even to the Seaſon of Seaſons, now to reſt themſelves in the large and full enjoyment of the creature for a time, two times and half a time, reſolving now to ware out the true aſſerters of the peoples freedom, and to change the time and laws to their exorbitant ambition and will; while all their promiſes, declarations and engagements to the people muſt be null'd and made Cyphers, and caſt aſide as waſt paper, as unworthy the fulfilment, or once the remembrance of thoſe Gentlemen, thoſe magnificent ſtems of our new upſtart Nobillity, for now it is not with them as in the dayes of their engagement at New-market and Triple heath, but as it was in the days of old with corrupt perſons, ſo is it in ours, Tempora mutantur .

But to proceed to the ſtory: the Lievtenant Collonel did not only ſhew his weakneſs, (or rather his iniquity) in his dealing with me, but he converts the aforeſaid Souldier of Leivtenant Generalls Regiment before divers of the Officers at White-hall, and there he renders the reaſon wherefore he made him a priſoner, becauſe ſaid he, he takes Overtons part, for he came and asked him how he did, and bid him be of good comfort, and he lay laſt night31 with a woman: To which he anſwered It is true, but the woman was my wife, then they proceeded to ask, when they were married, and how they ſhould know ſhee was his wife, and he told them where and when, but that was not enough, they told him, he muſt get a Certificate from his Captain that he was married to her and then he ſhould have his liberty.

Friends and Country-men, where are you now? what ſhall you do that have no Captains to give you Certificates? ſure you muſt have the banes of Matrimony re-asked at the Conventicle of Gallants at White-hall, or at leaſt you muſt thence have a Congregationall Licence, (without offence be it ſpoken to true Churches) to lye with your wives, elſe how ſhall your wives be chaſt or the children Legitimate? they have now taken Cognizance over your wives and beds, whether will they next? Judgement is now come into the hand of the armed-fury Saints. My Maſters have a care what you do, or how you look upon your wives, for the new-Saints Millitant are paramount all Laws, King, Parliament, husbands, wives, beds, &c. But to let that paſſe.

Towards the evening we were ſent for, to go before the Coun­ſell of State at Darby-houſe, and after Lievtenant Collonel John Lilburne, and Mr. Wallwine had been before them, then I was called in, and Mr. Bradſhaw ſpake to me, to this effect.

Maſter Overton, the Parliament hath ſeen a Book, Intituled, The Second Part of Englands New-Chains Diſcovered, and hath paſt ſe­veral Votes thereupon, and hath given Order to the Councel to make inquiry after the Authors and Publiſhers thereof, and proceed upon them as they ſee Cauſe, and to make a return thereof unto the Houſe: And thereupon he Commanded Mr. Froſt their Secretary to read o­ver the ſaid Votes unto me, which were to this purpoſe, as hath ſince been publickly proclaimed:

THe Houſe being informed of a Scandalous and Seditius Book Prin­ted, entituled, The Second Part of Englands New-Chains Diſ­covered.

The ſaid Book was this day read.

REſolved upon the Queſtion by the Commons aſſembled in Parlia­ment, That this printed Paper, entituled, The Second Part of32 Englands New-Chains Diſcovered &c. doth contin moſt falſe, ſcan­dalous, and reproachful matter, and is highly Seditious and Deſtructive to the preſent Government, as it is now Declared and ſetled by Parlia­ment, tends to Diviſion and Mutiny in the Army, and the raiſing of a New War in the Common-wealth, and to hinder the preſent Relief of Ireland, and to the continuing of Free-Quarter: And this Houſe doth further Declare, That the Authors, Contrivers, and Framers of the ſaid Papers, are guilty of High Treaſon, and ſhall be proceeded a­gainſt as Traytors; And that all Perſons whatſover, that ſhall joyn with, or adhere unto, and hereafter voluntarily Ayd or Aſſiſt the Au­thors, Framers, and Contrivers of the aforeſaid Paper, in the proſecution thereof, ſhall be eſteemed as Traytors to the Common-wealth, and be proceeded againſt accordingly.

Then Mr. Bradſhaw ſpake to me much after this effect,

Maſter Overton, this Councel having received Information, That you had a hand in the Contriving and Publiſhing of this Book, ſent for you by their Warrant to come before them; Beſides, they are informed of other Circumſtances at your Apprehenſion againſt you, That there were divers of the Books found about you. Now Mr. Overton, if you will make any Anſwer thereunto, you have your Liberty.

To which I anſwered in theſe words, or to the like effect:

Sir, what Title to give you, or diſtinguiſh you by, I know not; Indeed, I confeſſe I have heard by common report, that you go under the name of a Councel of State; but for my part, what you are I cannot well tell; but this I know, that had you (as you pretend) a juſt authority from the Parliament, yet were not your Authority valuable or binding, till ſolemnly proclaimed to the people: ſo that for my part, in regard you were pleaſed thus violently to bring me before you, I ſhall humbly crave at your hands, the producti­on of your Authority, that I may know what it is, for my better in­formation how to demean my ſelf.

Preſid.]

Mr. Overton, We are ſatisfied in our Authority.

Ric. Overt.]

Sir, if I may not know it, however I humbly deſire, that I may be delivered from under the force of the Military pow­er; for having a naturall and legall title to the Rights of an Eng­liſhman, I ſhall deſire that I may have the benefit of the Law of England, (which Law taketh no cognizance of the Sword). And in33 caſe you or any man pretend matter of crime againſt me, in order to a tryall, I deſire I may be reſigned up to the Civil Magiſtrate, and re­cceive a free and legall tryall in ſome ordinary Court of Juſtice, according to the known Law of the Land; that if I be found a tranſgreſſor of any eſtabliſhed declared Law of England, on Gods name let me ſuffer the penalty of that Law.

Further, Sir, In caſe I muſt ſtill be detained a priſoner, it is my earneſt deſire, that I may be diſpoſed to ſome priſon under the ju­riſdiction and cuſtody of the Civill Authority: For, as for my own part, I cannot in conſcience (to the common right of the people) ſubmit my ſelf in any wiſe to the tryall or cuſtody of the Sword; for I am no Souldier, neither hath the Army any Authoritie over me, I owe them neither dutie nor obedience they are no Sheriffs, Juſti­ces, Bailiff, Conſtables, or other Civil Magiſtrates: So that I can­not, neither will I ſubmit unto their power, but muſt take the bold­neſſe to proteſt againſt it.

Preſid.

Mr. Overton, If this be your Anſwer, you may withdraw.

R. Overt.

Sir, I humbly deſire a word or two more.

Lieut. Gen.

Let him have liberty.

Preſid.

Mr. Overton, You may ſpeak on.

R. Over.

Gentlemen, for future peace and ſecuritie ſake, I ſhall humbly deſire to offer this unto your conſideration; namely, that if you think it meet; That you would chuſe any four men in England, pick and chuſe where you pleaſe; and we (for my part, I ſpeak it freely in my own behalf, and I think I may ſay as much in theirs) ſhall endeavour to the utmoſt of our power by a fair and moderate Diſcourſe, to give the beſt account and ſatisfaction concerning the matter of difference betwixt us, that we can, that if poſſible, peace and agreement may be made: And this, after the weakneſſe of my ſmall underſtanding, I judge to be a fair and reaſonable way: if you ſhall be pleaſed to accept of it, you may; if not, you may uſe your pleaſure; I am in your hand, do with me as you think good, I am not able to hinder you.

Preſid.

Mr. Overton, If this be all you have to ſay, withdraw.

R. Overt.

Sir, I have ſaid.

So I was commanded into a little withdrawing room cloſe by the Councel; and I ſuppoſed they would have taken my motion into conſideration: But after I had been there a while, I was or­dered34 to the Room again, where Lieut. Col. Lilburn, Mr. Walwins, &c. were.

And now that it may be clear unto the whole world, that we heartily deſire the prevention and ceſſation of all differences and di­viſions that may be bred and break forth in the Land, to the hazard, if not actuall imbroilment thereof in a new exundation of blood in the proſecution of this controverſie, wee do freely from the heart (that heaven and earth may bear witneſſe betwixt our integrity to the peace of the Common-wealth, and their dealings with us) make this proffer as to be known to the whole world; that wee (in the firſt place I may beſt ſpeak for my ſelf; and I ſo far know the minds of Lieutenant Col. John Lilburn, Mr. Walwine, and Mr. Prince, that I may as freely ſpeak it in their behalfs) wil, by the Aſſiſtance of God, give any four men in England that they ſhall chuſe (although the Lieutenant General, and the Commiſſarie Generall be two of them) a free and moderate debate (if they ſhall think it no ſcorn) touching all matters of difference betwixt us, as to the buſineſſe of the Com­mon-wealth (for therein doth conſiſt the controverſie betwixt us) that if poſſibly, new flames and combuſtions may be quenched, and a thorow and an hearty compoſure be made betwixt us, upon the grounds of an equall and juſt Government. And that the buſineſſe may be brought to a certain iſſue betwixt us, let them, if they pleaſe, chuſe two Umpires out of the Houſe, or elſe-where, and we will chuſe two; and for our parts, we ſhall ſtand to the free determina­tion or ſentence, that theſe four, or any three of them ſhall paſſe be­twixt us. Or elſe, if they pleaſe but to center upon The Agreement of the People, with amendments according to our late ſad Apprehen­ſions, preſented to the Houſe upon the 26 of February 1648, for our parts, we ſhall ſeal a Contract of: Oblivion for all by-paſt mat­ters, relating either to good name, life, libertie or eſtate; ſaving of making Accompt for the publick Monies of the Common-wealth: And in ſuch an Agreement we will center, to live and die with them in the proſecution thereof. And if this be not a fair and peaceable motion, let all well-minded people judge.

But if nothing will ſatisfie them but our bloud, we ſhall not (through the might of God) be ſparing of that, to give witneſſe to the Right and Freedom of this Common-wealth againſt their Uſurpati­on and Tyranny; but let them know this, That Building hath a bad35 Foundation that is laid in the bloud of honeſt men, ſuch as their own knowledge and conſciences bear them record, are faithfull to the common intereſt and ſafety of the People: out of our aſhes may poſſibly ariſe their deſtruction. This I know, God is juſt, and he will repay the bloud of the innocent upon the head of the Tyrant. But to return to the Narrative.

After ſome ſmall ſpace that we had all been before them, we were called in again; firſt, Lieut. Col. John Lilburn, then Mr. Walwine, and then my ſelf: And coming before them the ſecond time, Mr. Brad­ſhaw, ſpake to this effect:

Preſid.

Mr. Overton, The Councel hath taken your Anſwer into conſideration, and they are to diſcharge their dutie to the Parliament, who hath ordered them to make enquity after the Book, intituled, The ſecond part of England's new Chains, &c. and thereof they are to give an account to the Houſe: And the Councel hath ordered me to put this queſtion unto you, Whether you had an hand in the contriving or publiſhing this Book, or no?

R. Overt.

Sir, I well remember, that ſince you cut off the King's head, you declared (or at leaſt the Parliament, from whence you pretend the derivation of your Authoritie) that you would main­tain the known fundamentall Laws of the Land, and preſerve them inviolable, that the meaneſt member of this Common wealth, with the greateſt, might freely and fully enjoy the abſolute benefit thereof. Now Gentlemen, it is well known, and that unto your ſelves, that in caſes criminall, as now you pretend againſt me, it is againſt the fundamentall Laws of this Common-wealth to proceed againſt any man by way of Interrogatories againſt himſelf, as you do againſt me and I beleeve (Gentlemen) were you in our caſes, you would not be willing to be ſo ſerved you ſelves; (what you would have o­ther men do unto you, that do you unto them.) So that for my part, Gentlemen, I do utterly refuſe to make anſwer unto any thing in in relation to my own perſon, or any man or men under heaven; but do humbly deſire, that if you intend by way of Charge to pro­ceed to any Triall of me, that it may be (as before I deſired at your hands) by the known eſtabliſhed Law of England, in ſome ordinary Court of Juſtice appointed for ſuch caſes (extraordinary waies being never to be uſed, but abominated, where ordinarie waies may be had) and I ſhall freely ſubmit to what can be legally made good a­gainſt me.

36But I deſire that in the mean time you would be pleaſed to take notice, that though in your eye I ſeem ſo highly criminal, as by thoſe Votes you pretend; yet am I guiltie of nothing, not of this paper, intituled, The ſecond part of England's new Chains, in caſe I had ne­ver ſo much an hand in it, till it be legally proved: for the Law looketh upon no man to be guiltie of any crime, till by law he be convicted; ſo that, I cannot eſteem my ſelf guiltie of any thing, till by the Law you have made the ſame good againſt me.

And further Sir, I deſire you to take notice, that I cannot be guil­tie of the tranſgreſſion of any Law, before that Law be in being a it is impoſſible to offend that which is not; Where there is no Law there is no Tranſgreſſion: Now, thoſe Votes on which you proceed againſt me are but of yeſterdaies being; ſo that, had I an hand in that Book whereof you accuſe me, provided it were before thoſe Votes, you cannot render me guiltie by thoſe Votes: If I had done any thing in it, ſince the Votes (provided you had ſolemnly proclaimed the ſame) then you might have had ſome colour to have proceeded againſt me: but I have but newly heard the Votes, and ſince that you know I could do nothing.

Preſid.

Mr. Overton, I would correct your judgment in one thing We are not upon any Triall of you; we are onely upon the diſcharge of our dutie, and that truſt committed unto us by the Parliament, to make enquiry after the authors, contrivers and framers of the Books and ha­ving information againſt your ſelf and your Comrades, we ſent for you, and are to return your Anſwer to the Houſe, howſoever you diſpute their Authority.

R. Overt.

Diſpute their Authoritie, Sir I That's but your ſuppo­ſition, and ſuppoſition is no proof. And Sir, as you ſay, you are to diſcharge your dutie, ſo muſt I diſcharge mine. And as for matter of triall, I am ſure you taxe me in a criminall way, and proceed to queſtion me thereupon. But Sir, I conceive it my dutie to anſwer to none of your Queſtions in that nature, and therefore ſhall utterly refuſe.

Now Gentlemen, I deſire you to take notice, that I do not oppoſe you as you are members of the Common-wealth; for it is well known, and I think to ſome here, that I have ever been an oppoſer of op­preſſion and tyrannie, even from the daies of the Biſhops to this pre­ſent time; and theviz. Arraign­ment of Perſecu­tion. Ordinance of Tythes Diſ­mounted. The Game at Scotch and Eng­liſh, &c. Books that I have writ and publiſhed do in ſome37 meaſure bear witneſs thereof, and it is well known, that my practice hath ever been anſwerable thereunto. I ſuppoſe no man can ac­cuſe me, but that I have oppoſed Tyrannie where-ever I found it: It is all one to me under what name or title ſoever oppreſſion be exerciſed, whether under the name of King, Parliament, Councel of State, under the name of this, or that, or any thing elſe; For tyrannie and oppreſſion is tyrannie and oppreſſion to me where­ever I finde it, and where-ever I finde it I ſhall oppoſe it, without reſpect of perſons.

I know I am mortall and finite, and by the courſe of nature my daies muſt have a period, how ſoon I know not; and the moſt you can do, it is but to proceed to life; and for my part, I had rather die in the juſt vindication of the cauſe of the poor oppreſſed people of this Common-wealth, then to die in my bed; and the ſooner it is, the welcomer, I care not if it were at this inſtant, for I value not what you can doe unto me.

But Gentlemen, I humbly deſire yet a word or two. I confeſſe, I did not expect ſo much civilitie at your hands as I have found, and for the ſame I return you hearty thanks.

Now whereas you commonly ſay, That we will have no Bottom, center no where, and do taxe us by the Votes you read unto me, of deſtruction to the preſent Government, diviſion and mutinie in the Armie, &c. But here I do profeſſe unto you, as in the preſence of the all-ſeeing God before whom one day I muſt give an ac­count of all my actions, That in caſe you will but conclude upon an equall and juſt Government by way of an Agreement of the People, as was honourably begun by the Generall Officers of the Army; and but free that Article in it which concerns the liberty of Gods Worſhip from the vexatious entanglements and contra­dictions that are in it, that ſo conſciencious people might freely (without any fear of an inſulting Clergie) live quietly and peaceably in the enjoyment of their conſciences; As alſo to add unto it a Barr againſt Regalitie, and the Houſe of Lords; As alſo to make proviſion in it againſt the moſt weighty oppreſſions of the Land; that thereby they may be utterly removed, and for the future prevented, and the people ſetled in freedom and ſafetie: And then, for my part, neither hand, foot, pen, tongue, mouth or breath of mine ſhall move againſt you; but I ſhall with my utmoſt power,38 with hand, heart, life and bloud, aſſiſt you in the proſecution there­of, and therein center. Try me, and if I fail of my word, then let me ſuffer.

Preſid.

Mr. Overton, If you have no more to ſay, you may withdraw.

R. Overt.

Sir, I humbly crave the further addition of a word or two.

Gentlemen, I deſire (as I did before) that I may (according to the common right of the people of England) be forthwith freed from under the power of the Sword, and be delivered into the hands of the Civil Magiſtrate, in caſe I ſhall be ſtill detained a priſo­ner; for I am ſo much againſt the intruſion of the Military power into the feat of the Magiſtrate, that I had rather you would fetter me legs and hands, and tie me neck and heels together, and throw me into a Dungeon, and not allow me ſo much as the benefit of bread and water till I be ſtarved to death, then I would accept of the beſt Down-bed in England, with ſutable accommodation, un­der the cuſtody of the Sword.

Preſident.

Mr. Overton, I would correct your Judgment a litle, you are not under the Military power, but under the Civil authority; for by the Authority of Parliament this Counſel by their Warrant hath ſent for you.

R. Overton.

Sir, it is confeſt, that pro forma tantum, for matter of Forme, inke or paper, I am under the Civil Authoritie, but eſſen­tiallie and reallie, I am under the Martial power; for that Warrant by which I was taken, was executed upon me by the Military pow­er, by a Partie of Horſe, and divers Companies of Foot in Arms, and in that Hoſtile manner (like a priſoner of War) I was led Cap­tive to White-hal, and there ever ſince, till commanded hither, I was kept amongſt the Souldiers, and I am ſtill under the ſame force: Be­ſides, Sir, theſe men are meer Souldiers, no Officers of the Magiſtra­cie of England, they brought no Warrant to me from anie Juſtice of Peace, neither did carrie me before anie Juſtice of Peace, but ſeiſed on me, and kept me by their own force: Therefore it is evident and cleer to me, That I am not under the Civil, but the Martial power.

Preſident.

Maſter Overton, If this be your Anſwer, you may with-draw.

39R. Overton.

Sir, I have ſaid.

And ſo I was conducted to the Room where they had diſpoſed Lievtenant Col. Lilburne and Mr. Walwine: And the next news we heard from them, was, of our Commitment to the Tower, and Maſter Prince and I were joyned as yoak-fellows in one Warrant; a Copie whereof is as followeth;

THeſe are to will and require you, to receive herewith into your Cu­ſtody the Perſons of Maſter Richard Overton, and Maſter Tho­mas Prince, and them ſafely to keep in your priſon of the Tower of Lon­don, until you receive further Order: They being Committed to you upon ſuſpition of High Treaſon; of which you are not to fail; and for which this ſhall be your Warrant:

Signed in the Name, and by the Order of the Councel of State, appointed by Authority of Parliament. Jo. Bradſhaw Preſident.

To the Lievtenant of the Tower.

Thus all un-intereſted, unprejudiced perſons, (who meaſure things as they are in themſelves, having nothing in admiration with re­ſpect of perſons, who ſimply and ſincerely mind the freedom and proſperity of the Common-wealth) may clearly ſee, as in a Glaſs, by this taſt of Ariſtocraticall Tyranny towards us, a perfect and lively reſemblance of the Councell of State; Ex pede Leonem, you may know a Lion by his foot, or a Bear by his paw: by this you may ſee their nature and kind, what and from whence they are, and whe­ther they tend, by this line you may meaſure the height depth and breath of their new Architecture of State, and by making our caſe but yours, you will find your ſelves new fettered in chaines, ſuch as never England knew or taſted before; that you may (truly if you will but meaſure it in the conſequence thereof,) break forth and cry out, Their little finger is thicker then our Fathers loines; our Fathers made our yoke heavie, but theſe adde unto our yoake; our Fathers chaſtiſed us with whips, but theſe chaſtiſe us with Scorpions. Who would have thought in the daies of their glorious40 pretences for Freedom, in the daies of their Engagements, De­clarations and Remonſtrances, while they were the hope of the oppreſſed, the joy of the righteous, and had the mighty conflu­ence of all the afflicted and well-minded people of the Land about them, (I principally reflect upon the Victors of the times) I ſay, who would have thought to have heard, ſeen, or felt ſuch things from their hands as we have done? Who would have thought ſuch glorious and hopefull beginnings ſhould have va­niſhed into Tyrannie? Who would have thought to have ſeen thoſe men end in the perſecution and impriſonment of perſons whom their own Conſciences tell them, to be men of known integritie to the Common-wealth; and which is ſo evident and demonſtrative, that thouſands in this Nation can bear Record there­of; and that thoſe men ſhould be ſo devilliſh, ſo tyrannicall and arbitrary, as after their impriſonment, to rake hell, and skim the Devill, to conjure out matter of Charge or accuſation againſt them, that they might have their blood, as in our caſe they have done, ſending abroad their blood-hounds to ſearch and pry out in every corner, what could be made out againſt us, going up and down like roaring Lions ſeeking how they might devour us; one offering Miſtris Prince her Husbands libertie, and the 1000 l. they owe him, if he will but diſcover what he knoweth (as they are pleaſed to imagine) againſt us; and not onely ſo, but ſome Mem­bers of the Houſe (as Mr. Kiffin confeſs'd in reſpect of himſelf) negotiate with the principall Leaders of ſeverall Congregations of religious people about the Town, to promote a petition, which was no other but in order to their bloudy deſigne againſt us; that thoſe conſcientious people (ſurpriſed by their fraudulent ſugge­ſtions and craft) might (not truly underſtanding the buſineſs) appear in the diſ-ownment and diſcountenance of us; and in the approbation and furtherance of the proſecuters of their bloudy Votes of High-Treaſon, intentionally breathed out againſt us: for could they by their deluſions over-whelm us once in the odium of religious people; with the venemous contagion of their malicious clamours, bug-bears, reproaches and lies, beget us under the Ana­thema of the Churches, then they think they may with eaſe and applauſe cut us off; for that's the venome lieth under the leafe, how finely ſoever they zeal it over; that ſo our friends and bre­thren41 (thus ſurpriſed and overtaken) may become our Butchers, and think they do God and their Country good ſervice while they ſlay us; but let them beware how they contract the guilt of our bloud upon their heads; for aſſuredly the bloud of the Innocent will be upon them, and God will repay it; I ſpeak not this to beg their mercy, I abhorre it, I bid defiance to what all the men and divels in earth or hell can do againſt me in the diſcharge of my un­derſtanding and Conſcience for the good of this Common-wealth; for I know my Redeemer liveth, and that after this life I ſhall be reſtored to life and Immortality, and receive according to the in­nocency and uprightneſſe of my heart: Otherwiſe, I tell you plain­ly. I would not thus put my life and wel-being in jeopardie, and expoſe my ſelf to thoſe extremities and neceſſities that I do; I would creaturize, be this or that or any thing elſe, as were the times, eat, drink, and take my pleaſure; turn Judas or any thing to flatter great men for promotion: but bleſſed be the God of Heaven and Earth, he hath given me a better heart, and better un­derſtanding. But to proceed;

That which is moſt to our aſtoniſhment, we underſtand of a truth, That Maſter Kiffin (to whoſe Congregation my back-friend Atel is a retainer) Maſter Spilſbury, Maſter Patience (who vili­fied the Book intituled, The Second Part of Englands New Chains, and yet confeſt be never ſaw it or heard it read, as by evidence can be made good) Mr. Fountain, Mr. Drapes, Mr. RICHARDSON, Mr. Couſet, Mr. Tomlins, and Mr Wade the Schol-maſter became their Purſuevants or bloud-hounds, to hunt us to the Bar of the Houſe of Commons with a Petition (moſt evidently and cleerly in purſuance of our bloud) Intituled, The humble Petition and Repreſentation of the ſeveral Churches of God in London, commonly (though falſly) called Anabaptiſts, April 2. 1649. tacitely and curiouſly in a moſt Religious vail pointing at, and reflecting upon us, as Interrupters of the Setlement of the Libertie and Freedom of this Common-wealth; headie, high-minded, unruly diſo­bedient, preſumptuous, ſelf will'd, contemners of Rulers, Dig­nities and Civil Government, whoremaſters, drunkares, cheat­ers, &c. as if it were not with thoſe men, as with the Publican and Sinner, diſ-owning the Book intituled, The Second Part, &c. which at that juncture of time, all circumſtances dulie weighed, was an42 abſolute juſtification of thoſe Votes of High Treaſon, and of pro­ſecution againſt us as Traytors, for the tendency of thoſe Votes were vented at us, and that their own knowledge and Conſciences tels them to be true, ſo that they could have done no more in Order to our bloud, then what they did in that matter, ſo as toand it of fairly and covertly preſerving to themſelves the reputation of the Churches of God: and to adde unto their impiety againſt us, they juggle with the Churches, preſent it in the name of the Churches