I AM informed of a great and late conteſt at Worceſter, in publike, between a Doctor of Phyſick, and a Miniſter, wherein the Miniſter non-pluſt his oppoſite, and ſubſtantially proved his Calling and Miniſtry true and Divine; but asking the Reporters how, or by what Scriptures or Arguments he did ſo prove it, they cannot inform me; wherefore let me intreat, to hear from you the full truth, both of manner and matter, how he proved the ſame, &c. for indeed, both with us, and in many other places in this Nation, our beſt and ableſt Miniſters, are at ſo great a loſs, and ſo hard put to it, in this, & ſome other reſpects (wanting that power and authority to back, and make good their Arguments, which formerly they had) that I cannot but much pitty them, and fear what may become of them at laſt: Thus deſiring your ſpeedy return, with my love to you, and your Bed-fellow, preſented, I reſt.
Feb. 25. 1655.
ALthough leſs able to anſwer your deſire (in yours of the 25. Inſtant) then others who2 were preſent at the conteſt; yet what I know thereof upon exacteſt inquiry, I ſhall declare unto you, which in effect is as followeth.
THIS Conteſt was in Saint Swithins Church, on Friday the 22. of Feb. between one Edward Born a Phyſician (termed a Quaker) and one Mr. Baker, a Miniſter in Worceſter, where the ſaid Edward Born charged the ſaid Mr. Baker to be no true Miniſter of Chriſt, his reaſon was, becauſe he did not abide in the Doctrrine of Chriſt; to which a by-ſtander anſwered, Every Beleever ought to abide in Chriſts Doctrine, therefore that was no ſpecial Mark to denote a true Miniſter by; to which might have been replyed, It being the duty of every Beleever, its the Duty of every Miniſter much more: But I conceive Edward B•rns Reaſon deficient more upon another ground (to wit) becauſe the Doctrine or Goſpel of Chriſt is altogether as much controverted for in the world, what it is, as the Miniſters of Chriſt, whom or where it is; and therefore to ſeek to prove one doubtfull thing by another, as doubtfull, is no better then beating the Air.
But at Edward Borns departure, there was a loud and very uncivill**he that hack'd cloth beyond Juſtice and honeſty, ſtrain'd zeal beyond wiſdom and modeſty: Prov. 13.16. clapping of hands, and hiſſing, by ſome then preſent, of rude breeding and behaviour; after which Mr. Baker taking the Pulpit, undertook to prove the truth of his own Miniſtry &††Which if he could do, he would do al at once; for then he ought to be heard as Chriſt or God himſelf. Luk. 10.16 Divine Calling to preach the Goſpel; for which purpoſe he cited Matt. 28.18, 19, 20. where Chriſt telling his Apoſtles that all Power was given to him both in Heaven and Earth, gave them3 Commiſſion to preach the Goſpel in all Nations, promiſing to be with them alway, even to the end of the world; where he reaſoned to this effect.
This promiſe here is not to be confined to theſe his eleven Apoſtles, who lived not long after, but is to be extended to their ſucceſſors, who from age to age were to continue on earth to the end of the world; and he being ordained ſubordinately from theſe Apoſtles, and by that Authority there given to them, Power and Authority was directed ſucceſſively from hand to hand to him, whereby he was made, and doth ſtand a true Miniſter of the Goſpel of Chriſt; and this he offered to maintain for truth againſt all that ſhould contradict, or would oppoſe the ſame: But this our confident yong man might have conſidered:
1. That, to the end of the world there, may in probability be underſtood, to the uttermoſt part of the earth, as in Acts 8. where the extent hath reference toplace, not to time.
2. But admit this Promiſe of Chriſt, his being with his true Miniſters to the end of the world, be abſoſolute, (as he expounded it) yet, how can this directly, or by any good conſequence, prove M. Bakers Miniſtry true, or to be derived from theſe Apoſtles, any more then it proves the Pope, and all his Maſs-Prieſts Miniſtry to be true, and derived from them.
Obj. But Mr. Baker moreover alledgeth a Seal which he had to his Miniſtry, proving the truth thereof, meaning men convicted by him to beleeve and imbrace his Doctrine, &c.
Anſ. Had not the Arians this Seal, when their4 Doctrine was ſo generally received throughout Chriſtendom, as it cauſed an ancient Father to ſay, that the whole world was become an Arrian: And have not the Anabaptiſts, the Quakers, and many other in our times, (eſteemed by Mr. Baker Hereticks, Schiſmaticks, or at leaſt deceivers) who have this Seal as much, and more then Mr. Baker; nay Mahomet himſelf, upon this account, will much outvie M. Baker, and may be proved a true Prophet, and to be ſent by the moſt High God.
But if it be well conſidered, it will appear that the aforeſaid promiſe of Chriſt, recorded in Mat. 28. is Conditional; and therefore cannot ſerve for that purpoſe for which it was alledged, the Text bearing this Reading, and ſenſe, viz. Going therefore, diſciplize (or make Diſciples) all (or in all) Nations††here is not meant the baptiſm with Water, as is generally held by ſuch as would be accounted true Miniſters, and ſent of God. baptizing them into the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghoſt; teaching them (to wit, the baptized Diſciples (to obſerve all things (without adding, omitting, or diminiſhing any thing) whatſoever I have commanded you; and lo, to wit, in your ſo doing) I am with you alway, even to the end of the world.
Now there is nothing more evident in Scripture then this, viz. That Chriſt taught, yea and ſtraightly charged and commanded theſe his eleven Apoſtles, that they ſhould not go out in the exerciſe of that their Commiſſion, or high Miniſterial Function of preaching the Goſpel, until they were indued with power from on high, by the coming down of the Holy Ghoſt upon them, Luke 24.29. Acts 1.4, 5.8. which was fulfilled within few days5 after, Act. 2.3, 4, whereby they were inabled not only to atteſt the truth and Divine Authority of that their Miniſtry and Doctrine, Mark 16.29. Acts 5.12.15, 16. Heb. 2.4. but were alſo made able Miniſters of the Spirit to beleevers, by laying their hands on them, Acts 8.15, 16, 17. Acts 19.1, 2.6. compared with Eph. 1.13. 2 Cor. 3.6. Acts 2.38, 39. 2 Tim. 1.6. Hence therefore may be reaſoned.
If Mr. Baker will derive the Authority of his Miniſtry ſubordinately from theſe eleven Apoſtles to himſelf (as aforeſaid) he muſt then alſo in like manner derive the force and virtue of this**here our new Preachers and Divines, of what kind, ſize or ſort ſoever, may take notice of their running alſo before they be ſent; the Anabaptiſt in ſpeciall may ſee his great Error, in taking commiſtion to teach and baptiſe from this Text (in Matt. 28.) which gives no Authority at all to any, it being only a recitall of an Authority given and exerciſed long before the writing thereof, which was not the more for its being written, nor had it been the leſs if it had never been written. prohibition from them alſo to himſelf; how he can rationally avoid this, I cannot imagine, becauſe no greater Authority can poſſibly be derived from them, then what they themſelves had from Chriſt; but they themſelves bad not from Chriſt Authority to exerciſe that Miniſterial Function of preaching the Goſpel to the world, until they themſelves were indued with Power from on High, as aforeſaid: Therefore, &c.
For what they had not themſelves, cannot be derived from them, by, or to Mr. Baker, or any man elſe.
Unto all which Mr. Baker himſelf contributes by the next Scripture, cited by him, (to ſecond his former, to prove the continuance of a true MINISTRY upon Earth) namely, Epheſians 4.8.11. &c. which Mr. FRANCIS then preſent out of the ſame PULPET had likewiſe done not long before,6 before, viz. cited the ſame Text in the ſame ſenſe, to prove the ſame thing, whereby it is granted (implicitly at leaſt) by both theſe,
1. That a gifted Miniſtry is the true Miniſtry of Chriſt.
2. That the true Miniſters of Chriſt conſiſts of Apoſtles, Prophets, Evangeliſts, Paſtors, and Teachers by gift from above. And
3. That ſuch are ſucceſſively to continue in the Church of Chriſt, for the perfecting of the Saints for the ſucceſsive work of the Miniſtry, for the edifying of the body of Chriſt, conſiſting alſo of gifted Beleevers, Mark 16, 17, 18. 1 Cor. 12.7.12, 13. Rom. 12.4, 5. Eph. 2.22, 23. till they all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the meaſure of the ſtature, or age, of the fulneſs of Chriſt.
And now Sir, you may plainly ſee no miſconſtruction here put upon theſe two Gent. in their making uſe of this Text, to prove the continuance of a true Miniſtry upon earth; for where it is ſaid in ver. the 11. that he gave ſome Apoſtles, and ſome Prophets, and ſome Evangeliſts, and ſome Paſtors and Teachers, the ſame is not to be underſtood, that he gave down ſuch men, but that after his aſcenſion he gave ſuch gifts to men, as in ver. 8. whereby they were qualified and inabled from on high for the aforeſaid ſeverall Offices and Imployments, and that ſuch were to continue ſucceſſively in the Church of Chriſt.
In this ſenſe was this Scripture cited by them both, or elſe it was brought by them both to no7 ſenſe: But haply they may object and ſay,
Obj. That they and the like Orthodox Miniſters are the true, or elſ there are none true in the world, for there are none ſuch, or ſo qualified, as this and other Scriptures do ſet forth true Miniſters, at firſt, to be.
An. 1. The world is wide and large, and much unknown to us, ſuch thererefore may be in the world though not known to us.
2. Whether there be any ſuch or not, or whereſoever the true Miniſtry is, yet theſe are none, even by their own ſenſe given of this Text, and epxerience is ſufficiently had of the deficiencie of the beft and ableſt of thoſe called Orthodox, in proving themſelves to be Divine, and ſent of God.
And now having given you the ſubſtance of what upon my beſt intelligence I have learnt, and what is material worthy your notice, I ſhall at preſent forbear to trouble you any further, ſave only to acknowledge my ſelf to be,
(EEBO-TCP ; phase 2, no. A80499)
Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 168375)
Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 132:E875[5])
Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford.
EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). The general aim of EEBO-TCP is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic English-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in EEBO.
EEBO-TCP aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org).
The EEBO-TCP project was divided into two phases. The 25,363 texts created during Phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 January 2015. Anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source.
Users should be aware of the process of creating the TCP texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data.
Text selection was based on the New Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature (NCBEL). If an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in NCBEL, then their works are eligible for inclusion. Selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. In general, first editions of a works in English were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably Latin and Welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so.
Image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. Quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in Oxford and Michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet QA standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. After proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. Any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor.
The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines.
Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements).
Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site.
This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. Searching, reading, printing, or downloading EEBO-TCP texts is reserved for the authorized users of these project partner institutions. Permission must be granted for subsequent distribution, in print or electronically, of this EEBO-TCP Phase II text, in whole or in part.